Aargh!! Frustration!!

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This is an effort to express the frustration I feel at so many authors who don't check their spelling or grammar. I can tell that many are using spellcheckers but are relying on them totally. I see such things as 'choirs' for 'chores' -- just the latest example!

I am a former Secretary/Word Processor for the Canadian federal government (SCY-02, OCE-03). I know what it is to have to proof your own work; you frequently read what you think is there, not what is actually there. There are tricks to it, the most obvious being to get someone else to read your work BEFORE you post it! There are others. Anyone interested in what they are need only write me and I will share them free of charge.

Please, don't tell me that spelling and grammar don't matter; they do! For anyone who is literate, errors interrupt the thought processes and disturb the flow of the story. Is that what you want? Then why write the story in the first place? Yes, sometimes it's the way the characters talk but that's no excuse for errors in the narrative parts, is it?

Speaking of characters talking, it's very difficult when quotation marks are incorrectly used. Frequently it's just carelessness; it's obvious that the author knows how to use them; she just can't be bothered! Frequently, the quotes open the character's speech but there's no closing quote to indicate when the speech is over and the narrative has begun again. Am I bright enough to figure it out from the context? Of course! But, again, it's an interruption and disturbance.

And, since it's evidently not common knowledge, you shouldn't put two characters' speeches in the same paragraph, even if there's narrative in between. When a second character starts to speak, you have to start a new paragraph. This is especially so when, for the purposes of quick dialogue, you just have quotes -- no 'she said', 'he said' to indicate who's speaking.

Just in case anyone fears that I'm not ready to put 'my money where my mouth is', I make an open offer to act as corrector of spelling and grammar for anyone who wants it; no charge! (I promise not to change 'honor' to 'honour' and to spell 'programme' as 'program' if that's how you want it!)

There! That's my rant for today!

Yours from the Great White North,

Jenny Grier (Mrs.)

Comments

Nobody sits down at a blank

Nobody sits down at a blank screen, and says to themselves, "Today I'm going to write a piece of shit that will annoy the grammar nazis out there." People write for different reasons.

Some write with an eye to possible publication, it's possible they might benefit from your editorial skills, and be confident enough in their own writing to appreciate your feedback.

Some write because they want or need to share a story. It's possible they're not elegant writers, or have the benefit of your education and experience, but that doesn't mean the stories aren't worthwhile.

Some write to practice a second (or third) language.

You are of course entitled to your opinion, but I would hate to think that even one person chose not to submit a story for fear they would be singled out or made the target of a rant for their attempt.

Writing is a craft; everyone is in the process of learning. What we DO NOT want to do, is discourage people from taking the first step in the journey. I'm sure Samuel Clemens and Ernest Hemingway wrote some utter crap when they were starting out.

This site has been very supportive of my efforts, it's the least I can do to extend that support to other writers.

Well said

Enemyoffun's picture

I agree one hundred percent. I have my editing problems, some come about because I'm too tired at the time when I finish writing it and others are because I miss something.

Here's something that I'd like to put out there too. I graduated highschool ten years ago and was never taught grammar once while I was there. They stopped teaching me grammar in school in the eighth grade. I have a BA in English, I took courses for four years at college to get one and still they didn't teach grammar. Grammar isn't my strong suit, it never was and it NOT going to stop me from writing.

I think Jenny was offering ...

... to help people make their stories easier to read. She wasn't trying to discourage anyone. As a writer, I wholeheartedly support anything that gets more people to READ stories that writers put their time and effort into, and created out of strength and will and imagination.

She offered to provide her services as an intelligent, experienced proofreader to spot things that might take someone out of the story. I don't think she was being hateful - although she did bill it as a rant, essentially, she just wants to help people for whom spelling, grammar, and punctuation don't come easily.

She's not insulting anyone or telling them to stop writing. She's just offering to HELP folks. And I think anyone who volunteers to do something as tedious as proofreading deserves all the thanks we can give. *grin*

*curtseys politely*

Randa

I'll help!

I agree, nobody is asking anyone to stop writing. When I write, I do my best to use proper grammar, even if I don't succeed all of the time. I volunteer to proof read, if anyone likes. I'm not an editor, as my writing skills are not that wonderful (ask Angela, she's been trying to make me a better writer), but I will be glad to be "a second pair of eyes" to help anyone that wishes it.

Wren

On the Contrary Dear Wren

Your writing skills are quite marvelous. There are simply a few things I believe are important to help the reader become more at ease with your work.

***

The vast majority of readers on BC are interested in a compelling story. While I agree that spelling and grammar errors can jar the reader's suspended disbelief, a dull story will put them off much faster.

There are a lot of editors around BC who are willing to work for free. Some of them actually are helpful. Find someone who's fun to work with. That's the main thing.

Angela Rasch (Jill M I)

Angela Rasch (Jill M I)

I did not just write for the craft of it.

For me, at first at least, my writing helped me to emote and cry about what had happened to me. Though my stories were not autobiographical, they were quite telling when it came to confronting the dismay and brokeness I was feeling at the time. They were pure catharsis, and I think that at first Erin cleaned my work up when I posted it. Holly has done the last couple submissions but I think she is getting very busy with new writers. I have appreciated her help.

My life is in a very different place now, and I may not write again. I don't like my work right now. I had thought that one of the products of moving to Ohio would be to give me lots of writing time. But, I seem to busier than ever and very occupied with my room mates, who have a whole constelation of their own problems. LOL

Much peace

Gwen

I don't think it *is* being

I don't think it *is* being a grammar nazi... I think that's a legitimate qualm. When you see someone abusing the English language you should be able to set it straight without someone taking offence. Quite frankly it is annoying to read. Of course the common rebuttal is "well don't read it then". However, when more and more people are posting stories that make errors which interrupt the flow of the narrative there really aren't a whole lot of other options. You can either offer your services freely or quit reading altogether.

There are some great stories on this site, and other sites, which fail simply because of the structure. I will not read a story if all character dialogue is written in the same paragraph. Seriously, not only does it undermine the flow of the story but it also confuses the reader. Not to mention the fact that it looks ugly. Stories aren't just about expressing yourself, they're also about presentation.

There are also minor errors such as people spellings words "thru, nite, blu", essentially lazy internet spellings which I think need to stop. But that's just one person's opinion.

Grammar

Being a native English Speaker and Reader, im fine
But when it comes to writing i suck, i do have a slight Dyslexia problem, which means i can muck up

But as i have just started to write here i have had someone PM with help with Chapter 0 of my Yu-Gi-Oh : Duelist of Time. so i feel im alright

Grammatical errors

I can't remember when I was last taught grammar - it must have been at primary / middle school - I don't remember being taught any rules or being marked down on bad grammar throughout High School. English lessons there were mainly about textual analysis and comprehension - I remember studying the First World War poets (Wilfred Owen's Dulce Et Decorum Est springs to mind), Spring and Port Wine (a televised play I had to study and recreate a scene from - IMHO very boring because nothing significant happens in the tale!) and Lord of the Flies (ghost writing Ralph's memoirs of the events).

So the majority of grammatical errors I'll probably not notice. Spelling errors I do notice, although I don't mind too much unless the exact same error crops up almost every time the word is used - normally a homonym (e.g. stair instead of stare).

But there is one element of grammar I do notice, and it irks me somewhat. Unpaired speech marks. However, I never write to the authors concerned to point out their error (or even worse, attach a public comment to the effect to the story), but since the subject's been brought up here, away from the context of any story in particular, I'll get it off my chest :)

I suppose that's one reason to use the "New speaker, new line" strategy. While I don't mind reading speech that flows as part of a paragraph, putting a physical separator between the speech and the narration does help to visually distinguish them; and I think that in the few tales I've scribed, I've generally followed the rule1.

 
 
1) I think I've followed it in everything I've done, but best to play safe and say 'generally' to allow for the possibility of having done it otherwise.

Bike Resources

There are 10 kinds of people in the world - those who understand binary and those who don't...

As the right side of the brain controls the left side of the body, then only left-handers are in their right mind!

Legitimate unpaired speech marks

There is one circumstance where my grammar school taught me to use unpaired speech marks: when second and subsequent paragraphs continue the unbroken conversation of the first.

Thus:

Lindale said, "I am very pleased at the number of people who have discussed this important subject.

"However," he continued, "there are clearly many opposing views and opinions."

That is perfectly correct usage of speech marks.

Which is why

more often than not, I will ask someone else to review something I've written.

I like to think that my spelling and grammar are good but, as in many situations, a reviewer/editor sees the occasional error that I've missed. In addition, they will often make suggestions that will result in improvements to the story. I am still learning my craft but, thanks to the helpfulness of others, I am finding it oh so enjoyable.

Susie

*Every* writer makes mistakes.

Puddintane's picture

Every writer needs an editor.

Because of the way our brains work, it's possible to be perfectly literate, a spelling bee champion ten years in a row, and still not *see* a perfectly obvious error until it's pointed out, if you wrote it. Writers actually have a harder time seeing their own errors precisely because they wrote the words and *know* what the words are supposed to say.

The greatest gift an editor brings to the table is profound ignorance of what the author is trying to say, because a good editor has no preconceptions. Because they don't *expect* anything, what they see is usually closer what the author actually wrote.

There is a tide in the affairs of men
Which taken at the flood, leads on to fortune;
Omitted, all the voyage of their life is
Is bound in shallows and in miseries.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OonDPGwAyfQ

Cheers,

Puddin'

A tender heart is an asset to an editor: it helps us be ruthless in a tactful way.
--- The Chicago Manual of Style

-

Cheers,

Puddin'

A tender heart is an asset to an editor: it helps us be ruthless in a tactful way.
--- The Chicago Manual of Style

I Never Make Misteaks

littlerocksilver's picture

I think many at this wonderful site desire to be better writers, and this has certainly been a great forum for us. Some of the contributors write great stories, but have trouble with some basic grammar issues such as: lay vs lie; your vs you're; there vs their vs they're. For some of, the errors are glaring. For other, they slide right by as we read the story. I'll take a great story any day that has grammatical problems over a grammatically correct story that is 'crap'. My stories are fine examples of stories that need a lot of help. I want as few distractions as possible for my readers. Besides, if some one (Holly) helps me with my grammar, it makes me look smarter and better educated than I really am. My first story was rife with errors when I first posted it. It still is. Those things are easy to fix.

One of the most popular authors of TG fiction has trouble with the use of 'you and I' vs 'you and me'. Does it detract? Perhaps a little, but the stories are entertaining none-the-less. We all make mistakes with homonyms, words that sound alike, such as wear and where. Your fingers just type away putting in the wrong word even though you intended to use the correct one. It happens to me all the time.

I find the PM to be a good way to let the author know; however, that pissed off one of the more prolific authors here anyway. I gladly accept any informative PMs for grammar, technical issues, improper translations, and just plain gaffs. I want to be a better writer. I want to write good (sic).

Portia

Portia

The joy's of, punctuation!

persephone's picture

Jenny,

Good literature and grammatical precision are not automatically contiguous. Whilst Fowler's 'Usage' may be the definitive text on the subject it is not something one would curl up with of an evening. The recent case of Jane Austen's manuscripts offers a wonderful example of the more freestyle approach some writers prefer.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/arts/it-is-a-truth-univ...

Persephone

P.S. I was tempted to use a few commas, exclamation marks and semi colons but I realised that today's box was already thoroughly depleted.

Persephone

Non sum qualis eram

I may have badges made that

Jemima Tychonaut's picture

I may have badges made that say 'I write like Jane Austen' after reading that! lol.



"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it."

Eats, shoots and leaves

I'm with Jenny here.

Writing is all about communication, and if you don't follow the rules your story will not be as good as if you do, simply because you won't be communicating it as well. You will turn some readers away and others will not get as much out of it as they might.

But I am more tolerant than Jenny over errors that the spell and grammar checkers do not correct because I accept that lots of people were not properly taught grammar and that others have problems of dyslexia.

It Drives Me Bonkers

jengrl's picture

It drives me bonkers when people use the wrong word in a sentence that sounds just like another. Some people say "I'm board" instead of "I'm bored". Threw and Through is one I have seen in other places besides this site on a few occasions. It doesn't happen very often. I have PMed some people pointing out mistakes in their stories. I am not being mean, but I am trying help.

PICT0013_1_0.jpg

Language

I tried a while ago to point out some of the more common errors such as its/it's and your/you're, but the spellchecker reigns supreme. I regularly find mine talking utter bollocks, and as I have said before I have the relevant degree for knowing when the dangly bits are being offered.
There is a dfference between a typo and a misunderstanding of the rules, but if it comes to dscussions of style, both can (almost) be ignored. For me, on the other hand, if someone is quoting a foreign language, it helps if they actually get a decent version of it, but what I think needs addressing more than its/it's is the following:

i went into the room and saw her there and she was wearing a garter belt what she had drug up her legs and she (continue in unseparated phrases ad nauseam)

There is a major dfference, I say perhaps in arrogance, between a story that irritates because of bad grammar/typos/over-reliance on a spell checker, and a story that is just rubbish. The example I concocted above might still work as a story if given some TLC, but some stuff is just.....

wee due hour best

Forgive me if there are errors in this post. It seems that I am illiterate! I find this factoid truly amazing because I read; I read a lot; much more than most illiterate people I promise you. But I must not be literate because something that bothers you, bothers me not at all. How about that!

Awww well, I do commiserate with you over your problem, and I confess I'm guilty of the great sin that you have explained (and I abuse my beta-readers horribly, and use them up), but then again these errors don't really bother me; I do often notice the homonym errors of others (though, it is true, not mine so well), but it doesn't get in the way of the story for me, so I must be illiterate, right? When I read I tend to read words, hear words, though I do read much faster than I could ever listen to a speech. Letters mean little to me - really. Perhaps, just maybe, different people have different styles, ways, of reading, and perhaps yours is not the 'better' one.

Sometimes I've seen this whole word, or voiced, method of reading called a type of dyslexia. I've known, worked with many people with real, true dyslexia; I've even given diagnostic test for dyslexia, and I don't think this is really the same thing. I don't think that readers, and it's not only me - there are many, that read words and sounds and ideas, rather than simply marks on a page, are in the same group as those that have difficulty deciphering those same marks. The former group only mimics the latter in their difficulty with spelling and, since the former cause fewer, less extensive, problems some do like to jump into the latter boat in the hopes of a free ticket, but to claim that either group is the result of carelessness, sloppiness, ignorance, whatever shows a real lack of thought and study into the ways in which the human mind can process information, and maybe carelessness, sloppiness and whatever.

Of course I too have my own peeves - I won't list all of them, you're in luck - but one of them is people that say things like "For anyone who is...", or "Everyone...", or "All good people think (believe - feel)..." and other such crap without ever really studding or considering or even thinking beyond there own ears, and when they actually only mean "I", "Me", "Mine". Some such persons claim, when they are caught, that it is just a rhetorical device. It is not. Rhetoric is the art of argument, of discussion, and persuasion; this is a device for confusion and contradiction only. It is the attitude that assertion is proof, that volume is evidence. It is the attitude that brings us neologisms like "refudiate"(= "proved wrong 'cuz i said it was".).

To me, just me, it seems the reaction to a story you have trouble reading, is to stop reading it. (I pretty sure Erin will leave it off the exam if you explain your reasons.) To me, it seems the way to offer help to someone you see having what you see as problems with spelling or punctuation (and I hope you have gone beyond Fowler and Truss if you are offering help in that area), would be a PM or an email. MHO

Joy, Jan

You say either, I say either...

Makes no sense when written, does it? But when spoken it does. Eeether or Aiether, phonetically spelling those is a bitch. And so is getting everything right when you write a story.

Unfortunately, proper use of grammar is something that has been badly neglected in education in the US, and probably other English speaking countries for years. I know I wasn't taught proper grammar after about seventh grade, and that was more years ago than I care to say right now. Learning it is tedious, and in this modern age of information at your fingertips with a few typed words or a phrase, tedious just doesn't get a chance.

Yes, I've taken the trouble to work at learning it, though I know I'm far from good at it in a nuts and bolts sense. No, I'm not perfect with it and likely never will be. I went through the public school system just like most of the current crop of writers in any genre did, and that de-emphasized grammar a long time ago in favor of 'content' and 'understanding' what was read.

Did we lose things with that? Yes. But did we gain something in return?

I think so. The balance isn't good, and people do take advantage of the idea that grammar doesn't matter any more. That isn't the case at all. Good grammar, or as good as you can get it, is something any writer who really cares about what they're doing wants to have. It helps make a story coherent, understandable, and most importantly, readable. If someone can't figure out what you're saying in a story, they aren't going to read it, after all.

An example is the use of quote marks in dialogue. I was always taught that if the same person is talking through several paragraphs, that you didn't end the dialogue with quotes, but just went to the next paragraph until an action interrupted the talking. That is what was called continuity when I learned it, keeping the sense of one person talking through the whole thing without the interruption of punctuation that could be distracting. Just how I was taught to write. People disagree with that, and that's fine. Will I change that? Not likely if I'm not shown a really powerful reason to do so, because that is the way I was taught to do it, by teachers who were selling stories even then.

Is proper grammar important? Yes. Does it make a bad story good? No.

It does make a good story better? Marginally, just because it flows better when we read it, doesn't have those little bumps and potholes that distract some of us while we're reading.

The difficulties with homonyms aren't grammar and understanding what a nuance of spelling is and how it can change a whole sentence, paragraph, or section of something . Don't trust your spell checker on things like that. If the word is in your dictionary, it will accept it. Grammar checkers are a joke. I once used one to see what it did to one of my stories and the results were hilarious if unreadable. If a grammar check tells you something is wrong, take a look, but if what you had written makes sense to you and your beta readers (you do have beta readers, right?) ignore the idiot thing.

The upshot of this is really pretty simple. Get other people you trust and respect to read what you write before you post it. The best grammar, and content corrector in existence is someone else. A real live person who hasn't spent all that time on your story, your child, and isn't afraid to tell you when and where you screwed up. I've had people do that for me and I've done it for others.

And yes, I do understand the rant that started this thread, and sympathize though I know I'm one of the guilty parties. I also saw this as a genuine offer of help so won't land on anyone with both feet over it. All I ask is that people realize that proper grammar is becoming a lost art in this day and age, sad as that is.

In closing, a gentle PM to an author, with an offer to help make their stories more enjoyable, usually works as opposed to telling them their stuff sucks a big one and needs help. Don't point at the mistakes in the first message, just offer to help them get better. Any writer who is really working to get better at that craft, and yes it is a craft, will generally be happy to accept the help.

As in anything, it's all in how you present it. Damn, there's that grammar thing again. lol.

But writing isn't just nuts and bolts, though that does make the presented product better. It's about telling stories, getting things out of your system, showing people visions that you've had and want to share.

I would urge people to get an editor, or a fellow writer to read and comment on your stories before you post them, you'd be surprised how much that input can improve things if you haven't done so.

Writing is the thing here, I know that. But think of it this way. Build a brick wall with clay instead of good strong concrete for mortar... Uncured clay, by the way... What happens the first time it rains? Your wall falls down.

But on the other hand, don't obsess with that wall. Write your story, get opinions, help, edits.

Also, on a last note here. We aren't getting paid money for the stories we share on this site, or a lot of others. Not that something like that should keep anyone from doing their absolute best with everything. But the truth is, we're all amateurs on forums like this and we're learning. Some of us have sold stories, novels, or articles in the mainstream, I have, so have a lot of others. Big deal.

We're here to enjoy, to learn things about writing when we post a story.

Trust me, you never stop learning. Just accept it, and absorb whatever you can.

And when you see a post like this, don't get angry. Take it as the offer of help it is.

But remind whoever posted it, privately, that you aren't perfect, aren't making money with this, and are willing to learn as you go.

Okay, my soapbox is cracking, so I'll stand down.

But think about things. Please.

Maggie

Quotation mark usage...

Puddintane's picture

...varies across countries, authors, languages, and personal habit.

The official rule in English is that if one has a series of logical paragraphs spoken by one person, you enclose the entire speech in normal quotation marks, and then indicate the beginning of each new paragraph with a single opening quote:

“Paragraph One
Line Two
Line Three
Line Four

“Paragraph Two
Line Two
Line Three
Line Four

“Paragraph Three
Line Two
Line Three
Line Four”

What kind of quotation marks are normal depends on where you are. See UK and US usage below.

The very old (Sixteenth Century) rule in English was to begin every new line in a long quote with an opening quotation mark:

“Paragraph One
“Line Two
“Line Three
“Line Four

“Paragraph Two
“Line Two
“Line Three
“Line Four

“Paragraph Three
“Line Two
“Line Three
“Line Four”

The remnants of this practice are still with us, because the old typesetters, anxious not to exhaust their store of expensive quotation mark pieces of cast type, eventually just left them off the line entirely, but inset the line by the space the mark would have taken up, thus inventing the block quote:

The judge said,

Paragraph One

Paragraph Two

Paragraph Three

and then rapped on the bench with his gavel.

Many style books recommend this convention instead of the 'begin each new paragraph with a open quotation mark' rule because it's very easy to become confused through missing a tiny little mark. Block quotes are unambiguous, and it's fairly easy to indicate quotes within quotes with another level of indentation.

Before the Sixteen Century, quotations were often indicated through being set (or written) in italic or other different style of type:

Tom said Hello, Sue. I was glad to hear you sing.

And I was very pleased to sing she replied.

The UK usage for quotation marks reverses the usual US practice by using "single quotes" (‘XXXXX’) for the first level of quotation, and then enclosing enclosed quotes with "double quotes." (“XXXXX”) This actually seems more logical, as at least the level of enclosed quote follows the numerical order of the bits of the mark.

Tom said, ‘Oh, by the way, Sue said, “You fool! I’ll never leave London!” ’

In the USA, it would be:

Tom said, “Oh, by the way, Sue said, ‘You fool! I’ll never leave New York!’ ”

Note that when beginning or ending quotation marks follow one another directly, you're supposed to insert a space between them to avoid confusion.

To add to the confusion, when you have quotes within quotes within quotes, you start at the beginning with a new level of beginning opening quotes.

Tom said, ‘Sue said, “Fred said, ‘Hi!’ ” ’

Some writers, notably James Joyce (who lived in France) follow the French practice and start quotations with a "quote dash" (often an em-dash: —)

— Hello, Tom said. How are you?
— I'm fine now, Sue said, but just getting over the flu.

Note that where the spoken words leave off and speakers or actions are mentioned is left as an exercise for the reader in this scheme.

Cheers,

Puddin'

A tender heart is an asset to an editor: it helps us be ruthless in a tactful way.
--- The Chicago Manual of Style

-

Cheers,

Puddin'

A tender heart is an asset to an editor: it helps us be ruthless in a tactful way.
--- The Chicago Manual of Style

Russian is easier in this regard, sometimes:

We actually have two different sets of rules, one for dialogue and one for direct speech. Yeah, there is a difference.

In dialogue, we use the quote-dash usually. It looks like this:

— Hello,— Tom said, — How are you?
— I'm fine now,— Sue said,— but just getting over the flu.

As you can see, both the words and the explaining words inside are clearly defined. If we need to speak for several paragraphs, the quote-dash is only at the opening of the first paragraph. It is usually readily apparent when one stops speaking.

Now, in direct speech, which is usually reserved for thoughts and internal comments, or quotation, we use quotation marks. And since internal monologues of significant length are usually written with the character as the narrator, the quotation marks there are omitted.

In shorter versions, it looks much like this:

"Hello, — Tom said. — How are you?"
"I'm fine now, — Sue said, — but just getting over the flu."

Or for the times when the author's words are on only one side:

"Hello", — Tom said.
Sue replied: "Hi there!"

To sum up, we use em-dash quite extensively, which can prove handy as it is a very clear indication of speech one can't easily miss.

Faraway


On rights of free advertisement:
Big Closet Top Shelf

Where you can fool around like you want to and most you get is some bemused good ribbing!

Faraway


On rights of free advertisement:
Big Closet Top Shelf

Where you can fool around like you want to and most you get is some bemused good ribbing!

US/UK

Now there's an oddity...I was taught what you call the US system of nested quotations, but in the UK!

As was I

...which is why I write all my stories in that style.

However, I have just done a random sampling of books (mostly paperbacks) from my extensive library and I discover that every single one uses single quotes for speech. I find that amazing.

I doubt that I could change my style to single quotes, even if I cared to. Doubles work for me, and that's the way I likes it.

Penny

Me three.

However I've just done a random check of 3 books on the shelf before me.

'Pompeii' by Robert Harris - single quotes and British
'To the Baltic with Bob' by Griff Rhys Jones - single quotes and British
The Penguin Dorothy Parker - British/US - double quotes

btw I recommend them all :)

Robi

It depends on where the market is...

Puddintane's picture

Different publishers may enforce different standards, depending on whether they want to create different editions for the US and (essentially) the rest of the English-speaking world. Canada is a bit of an exception, because they're all over the map in practice, if not in theory.

Pullman's His Dark Materials Trilogy, for example, was published first in the UK, then they decided to bring out a US edition, and changed Northern Lights to The Golden Compass, for arcane reasons that made sense only to the marketeers, despite the fact that Northern Lights made sense and Golden Compasses had nothing to do with the story.

Many scholarly journals insist upon one or t'other, depending partly on where they're published, but also where most of their readers live.

Cheers,

Puddin'

A tender heart is an asset to an editor: it helps us be ruthless in a tactful way.
--- The Chicago Manual of Style

-

Cheers,

Puddin'

A tender heart is an asset to an editor: it helps us be ruthless in a tactful way.
--- The Chicago Manual of Style

Incredible

I always find it rather interesting that people who are being given something for nothing can be so demanding. Even more incredible, in my mind at least, are the biggest critics of poor spellers such as I and sloppy gramaricairians are those who don't bother to post their own pitch perfect stories on this site.

I expect if Willie Shakespeare posted here on TS/BC he'd be hammer for using some of the 1,600 words he pulled out of his fertile mind as well as the terrible way some of his characters conversed.

Like some have already said, I will take a well written story with a plot that is engaging and characters are are more than talking heads over a pitch perfect piece any day of the week, and twice on Sunday.

Nancy Cole

Nancy_Cole__Red_Background_.png


~ ~ ~

"You may be what you resolve to be."

T.J. Jackson

Well, yes

I and most can probably agree with that.

But can you draw the distinction between an author who attempts to get most things mostly right, which can be quite difficult if you have a lengthy piece, and an author who makes no attempt at all to do any presentation?

Occasional spell checker homonyms I can overlook, but one or two (though, fortunately not many on this site) just don't seem to be bothered how the final product looks.

And such things matter. Do you really want someone like that to paint the outside of your house?

Penny

No Need to Worry

Since I am no longer posting at this site, you have no need to worry about my pathetic efforts and poor command of the Queen's English.

As far as my house, I do my own painting. Like my writing, my efforts might offend some folks because it is not pith perfect, but in the end, I can at least take pride in the fact that I at least got off me bum and gave it a whirl.

Nancy Cole


~ ~ ~

"You may be what you resolve to be."

T.J. Jackson

You write compelling stories

The site is poorer for you not posting here, Nancy. You write compelling stories, and your command of the language is better than most. A few errors here and there just show you're human, just like the rest of us!

Kris

Kris

{I leave a trail of Kudos as I browse the site. Be careful where you step!}