What is the issue with Forced Fem?

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In the new story, "Survival", one of the comments reflected on Forced Fem as if it was a negative in a story. I just don't understand the reason people would see it as a negative?

Lots of us have endured Forced Masculinization at the hands of our guardians and parents. I did for sure, and the bloody bastard nearly killed me. So when "she" finally fought her way to the surface later in life, it felt like Forced Fem for a long time and that is what I wrote at first.

Sometimes FF is used for guilt relief because the writer feels guilty for persuing things that only a "pervert", as they had been taught, would persue.

In those dark days, post 9/11, my world began to crash in earnest. My own job environment had suddenly become extremely surreal, as I watched the government attack and restrict loyal Americans. I was working for a small city here in Oregon, and in my job I had lots of contact with city, county, state and federal employees. After 9/11 suddenly from the top down, everything went crazy, as if loyal Americans could suddenly become a security risk.

It was during that time, when I just hit the wall, losing my ability to handle any stress, and crying lots of the time. For the first time, I realized that my own government could be a bigger threat to me than some irrational terrorist. I felt like it was going to be the Vietnam days all over again and even worse.

To get me functional again, the Doc put me on two different types of psych meds, an anti depressant and an anti anxiety med. Now, I realize that I was just fine, it was the government that was nuts. I was not Muslim then, and in retrospect, I wish we had gone to Canada, or Australia, or New Zealand.

For me, the effect of those meds was to break down all my inhibitions and then I began to remember things from the past. Then I began to feel that a real man could take all this and I was not handling it well. In a twist of faulty logic, I began to think that if I was not a real man, then I must be a woman. Then came revelations from my brother that helped me to remember my very twisted childhood.

Would all this have happened if I had not gotten on the psych meds? Perhaps, I would have just killed myself but for the meds? I'll never know. Over the months and the next years, my female side increasingly became conscious. I began to remember that it was that very female side that caused my stepfather to nearly kill me, and later, talking to my brother, he confirmed that my step father saw me as a very effeminate boy. In those days, he probably thought I was gay. Recently, a counselor theorized that perhaps he was a latent homosexual and I caused those feelings to intensify.

So, in writing those FF stories, I was writing about what I knew. I was forced to be male by him, and later, out of guilt, when my feminine side began to come out, it felt very forced. Without interference, as a child, I would have lived as a female, and later tests would realize that I had a androgen issue.

So, that is why a lot of what I write is FF, and I am not going to apologise for it. My first exposures to being a female again felt very forced, and that is what I know.

Maybe FF and spanking will be my trademark?

Comments

The problem with "forced fem" ...

... is "force." *grin* Same with "forced masculinization."

To me, it always comes down to the question of self-determination. None of the male hikers in that story would have chosen to become female. When an individual's right to choose their own destiny is denied, it rubs me the wrong way. I don't like anyone making my decisions for me, and something as central to a person's core as their gender shouldn't be changed by another without that person's active consent.

Hope this answers the question, Gwen. It does for me. *smile*

Randalynn

Here, here.

The idea that someone is being forced masculinized when their privates suggest they are to be treated that way is not rational (How many are actually mind readers? We are body readers: how many of this gendres stories actully convey knowing that when they use the phrase 'being read'). There is no gender to spirit. I know that revelation will rub many here the wrong way but it is none-the-less true. In the spirit world you do NOT procreate (you do but not by sex). That is a biological (meaning physical) function. Gender dysphoria is the mind part of the soul and the body part of the soul having conflicting ideas.

I'm sorry but...

I know this revelation will rub many here the wrong way but it is VERY TRUE that the spirit DOES have gender. In fact. Gender IS in the spirit. SEX is a physical thing and is part of why we spiritual beings needed to gain physical bodies.

But our minds are our physical manifestations nearest gateway to our very real spirits and those spirits house our selves, our ID, which includes our gender.

Either that or there is no spirit world at all and we're simply just our biology alone. That'd be an awful ugly way to look at the world though and I'd pity anyone that narrow minded.

Abigail Drew.

I would hate to think.....

D. Eden's picture

That we are nothing more than a series of chemical reactions and a spark of low voltage electricity. Personally, as an engineer, my life revolves around logic and logic tells me that there is more to it than simply that.

Besides, I have seen too much in this world to believe that there is nothing but random chance involved in everything.

I personally agree that gender lies in the spirit, the soul, or whatever you want to call that special something that makes each of us what we are. Just because I was born with a genetic birth disorder doesn't mean that I am or must be what my physical body projects, and I will fight for my right (or anyone else's) to be the real person that they are.

Dallas

D. Eden

Dum Vivimus, Vivamus

Since you are already Female,

forced Femme would be a bit redundant, wouldn't it? It would have to be forced masculinization and that would be FM... or is it AM...? I forget. Anyhoo, as for the spanking... I'm too far away to administer anything but a virtual spanking.

For me, if I may be serious for a moment, forced femme is abhorrent , since it is administered as punishment for some real or imagined misdoing, or just for "fun" or profit. In other words, it takes what we as M to F's are trying desperately to accomplish, and makes it seem trivial, as if being female is somehow less than being male, hence making it a punishment.

I can tell you this. If ANY female tried some of the horrible things that I've read in some of the forced femme stories, on me... and I didn't WANT to be female... there would be a murder committed or at least a severe ass kicking administered to the perpetrator, followed by court case after court case for false imprisonment, cruel and unusual punishment, kidnapping and anything else my lawyers could drum up... or I would be dead.

Yes, I DO understand that these stories are just that, stories. However! I don't doubt that such things DO happen in real life, stealing men's lives and condemning them to an existence they neither wanted nor, in most cases, deserved. It's one thing to WANT to be the opposite sex, it's a whole different thing to be FORCED to be it.

All of us M to F's were forced to be male, whether we wanted it or not, by our own self imposed ideas ingrained in us BY society... by fear if you will... and how awful was that? So, to be forced to be ANYTHING one doesn't WANT to be is abhorrent to me. In fiction... okay. Alls fair and all that. In real life? In plain and simple English, NO FUCKING WAY!

Rant over. You may return to your preferred form of entertainment and, oh Gwen? Consider yourself virtually spanked within an inch of your endurance... or your libido. LOL!

hugs and spanks,
Catherine Linda Michel

As a T-woman, I do have a Y chromosome... it's just in cursive, pink script. Y_0.jpg

This is simply my thoughts,

This is simply my thoughts, and almost certainly doesn't reflect anyone else.

"Forced masculinization" would be when you were _physically_ female, and somehow required to take androgens, estrogen blockers, perhaps even mastectomy and penile construction. I don't include most of "natural" development as being forced.

I consider 'Forced Fem' and the above 'Forced Masc' as abuse, period. Any time you forcibly physically alter, or otherwise modify, a person, it's abuse.

I avoid most forced fem stories because it's like someone is just taking their angst out on their characters, rather than writing a story. Revenge can be done well, but most of the time it's just catharsis for the author, and I don't need to be mentally abused for that. Some people do it (FF) very well, as a plot device (JulieO comes to mind), but it's never treated as a nice thing.

TG is an odd duck when it comes to development, both mental and physical. Most don't go through 'forced' anything - they go through normal physical development as dictated by their genes. The problem occurs on the mental end, when the parent(s) try to dictate behaviour patterns that are counter to the existing mental patterns. It's mental abuse more than physical abuse. (there may be physical abuse as well, but that's not based upon developmental physical patterns as much as it is all the OTHER patterns)

BW


I'll get a life when it's proven and substantiated to be better than what I'm currently experiencing.

There's an entire strain of feminist thought...

Puddintane's picture

...which considers most of female upbringing to be both forced femininisation and compulsory heterosexuality, not necessarily in that order.

Compulsory Heterosexuality

Femininity

Feminism

––––––

I myself have never been able to find out precisely what feminism is: I only know that people call me a feminist whenever I express sentiments that differentiate me from a doormat.
– Rebecca West

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Cheers,

Puddin'

A tender heart is an asset to an editor: it helps us be ruthless in a tactful way.
--- The Chicago Manual of Style

My mother - one of the

My mother - one of the original 'feminists' who were active in the late 50's and into the 60's - thinks that most of the people out there that call themselves feminists are insane. She has no problem with men being men, and women being women - she just wanted equal treatment _in the workplace_. (Equal pay for equal work, and removing the glass ceiling, for example)

I'll admit, the "feminists" I've run across personally are... borderline bugnuts. (Ask in a PM, and I'll give you more information. I just won't air it publicly)


I'll get a life when it's proven and substantiated to be better than what I'm currently experiencing.

When my grandmother was a young woman...

Puddintane's picture

...she couldn't vote, nor own property. My mother belonged to the very first generation of American women who could vote. Feminism proper demanded the rights of women to equal pay, equal property rights, and equal treatment under law, which is still largely unrealised. I'm so terribly sorry if anyone is or was confused about this issue.

The Nineteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution, which provided: "The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex," wasn't ratified until 1920.

Women make, on average, twenty percent less than similarly-situated men. Attaching a female name, as opposed to a male one, to an identical resume results (in some studies and some companies) in inquiries for appointment or interview dropping to exactly zero.

Wage offers for mothers average approximately seven percent less per claimed child. Wage offers for fathers, by way of contrast, average $4,000 to $5,000 higher than childless men.

Quelle surprise!

--------------------

“Ideally, what should be said to every child, repeatedly, throughout his or her school life is something like this: 'You are in the process of being indoctrinated. We have not yet evolved a system of education that is not a system of indoctrination. We are sorry, but it is the best we can do. What you are being taught here is an amalgam of current prejudice and the choices of this particular culture. The slightest look at history will show how impermanent these must be. You are being taught by people who have been able to accommodate themselves to a regime of thought laid down by their predecessors. It is a self-perpetuating system. Those of you who are more robust and individual than others will be encouraged to leave and find ways of educating yourself — educating your own judgements. Those that stay must remember, always, and all the time, that they are being moulded and patterned to fit into the narrow and particular needs of this particular society.”
― Doris Lessing, The Golden Notebook

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Cheers,

Puddin'

A tender heart is an asset to an editor: it helps us be ruthless in a tactful way.
--- The Chicago Manual of Style

And there are intelligent people ...

... in the world today who believe the Earth is flat, but that doesn't make it so. Anyone with an axe to grind will find a way to grind it, or make one. Every homosexual or TG individual is living proof that you can't compel someone to act against their nature. You can't program femininity or heterosexuality, and any one who believes otherwise is as misguided as those who think you can cure someone of being gay.

Defining feminism as a way to promote equality is a worthy goal. Defining feminism as a way to promote unprovable theories that justify blaming or hating an entire gender (or creating conspiracy theories out of academic swamp gas)? That's just wrong,

In my humble opinion, of course. *grin*

Randalynn

Those people come

under the heading of feminazi. They just hate men in general and a lot of other things as well.

An author can write any story they choose. I see FF, I generally stay away from it. I might skim over it briefly as some stories might say FF but the story is not what I consider "forced"

I haven't read the story that

I haven't read the story that caused this discussion, but I can tell you why many people have issues with forced femme. It's like abducting a lesbian and raping her until she believes she loves her rapists and being heterosexual is the thing.
Sounds horrible? Well forced femme is even worse for most people. At least the lesbian didn't get mutilated in the process.

Did you enjoy your Forced Masculinization?

I don't imagine so. Why should you be surprised that the exact opposite - forcing somebody with a fundamentally male nature to live in a female body and act as a female - would be extremely off-putting to many people who have had similar experiences?

FF stories have a pretty ugly implication - that it is OK to force somebody to embrace a gender identity alien to their fundamental nature. As a fantasy, and understood explicitly as fantasy, there's nothing wrong with that. However, lots of people can't look past that implication, and realize that if FF is OK, so is Forced Masculinization such as you experienced - and refused to countenance any position that validates that in any way.

I only thought it was FF

In 2001, when all this began to seriously rear it's head, I thought I was being forced. Years later, I realize that it was just my primary nature coming to the fore. :)

G

I don't comment often, but this drew me in.

I can only agree with what has already been said by others. Forced fem is a form of bullying, and bullying of any kind where the perpetrators do not face consequences raises my hackles. In general, forced fem glorifies mean people, and mean people suck.
.
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The girl in me. She's always there,
for no other reason than she wants to be there.

A lot of people have disturbing fantasies

There's nothing inherently wrong with that. There is, however, something wrong with assuming that just because you have a fantasy that is not necessarily appropriate to be aired in front of everybody, everybody else has that same fantasy.

FF stories are not usually for me unless they involve the victim winning free and making the abusers regret everything from their birth to the moment they picked that one particular victim. I understand that I am not everybody, and plenty of people enjoy FF stories. I just prefer not to read them. I only chimed in because the OP was wondering how people could have issues with FF stories. I cannot comprehend how somebody could fail to understand at least one of "FF is a form of abuse" and "sexualization of the abuse of the helpless disturbs many people."

Forced Femme as a litteray tool.

Patricia Marie Allen's picture

Forced Fem is often used as a literary tool by those who have some measure of guilt (usually unfounded) about the fact that don't fit into the societal binary sexual/gender mold. They can't deny the feminine soul within, but feel that they are less than dirt because it's there. They want desperately to be feminine, but feel they somehow they're wrong to feel that way.

So, if someone were to force them to be feminine, then they could have what they so desperately need and, since it wasn't their choice, they have no guilt. Since they feel so low for wanting it in the first place well then it has to be humiliating maybe even painful so that it all comes together to wipe out the guilt.

Personally, I can see that someone might be put in a position to have to experience femininity temporarily and so discover they like it and in the end embrace it. But as others here have so succinctly said, to be yanked out of a perfectly satisfactory male life and force to experience femininity and so be brainwash so to totally give up the masculine life that they were perfectly content with is just wrong to nth degree.

Hugs
Patricia

Happiness is being all dressed up and HAVING some place to go.
Semper in femineo gerunt

forced fem

As a crossdresser all my life and a former irc administrator for roleplay chat room,forced fem is very popular especially with new crossdressers.Its my opinion especially with new crossdressers its related to the guilt produced by yrs of patterning and nonacceptance of crossdressing particularly in yrs past .As a old cd of 57 we faced more hurdles and ridicule than the current generation and I'm very thankful they now have it somewhat easier now.That said ,there is also a change that accurs when we finally choose our path and accept what we truly are and want to be .At that point imo we accept that this is what we want and the guilt dimishes somewhat.Another factor that I know often plays in is with the abuse survivors ,the forced can often trigger flashbacks of trauma that they experience with abuse in there memory .Part also portains to the degree of force really within any story of forced fem is the person really physically forced or merely coersed into following a feminine patttern of behavior or dress .
My biggest issue personally with forced fem as a abuse survivor myself ,after locked in a county jail cell at age 12 with 3 adult black males for 3 days is the content itself in many of the stories ,a misconception that somehow anal and oral sex with males is almost a requirement of being female and even female writers use it to often.I will often read forced fem stories myself but like most genetic females I have my limits and stop if needed .
Most crossdressers are also heto cd ,although they often fantasize about forced gay ,its just a fantasy and would never consider it in reality ,so the parameters of what constitutes forced fem are varied but can be very relevant

Hope that helps

Kimmie Townsend

kimmie townsend

I've done forced fem stories

when I first started reading trans stories, it seemed like that's pretty much all there were - stories about some guy who gets turned into a girl against his will. When I do FF, I try to bring something more than just titillation to them. But I totally get why some people would find those types of stories hard to read.

DogSig.png

God, Y'all, I remember when it was FemDom...

Ole Ulfson's picture

In the execrable books sold in the '60s and '70s it often degenerated into torture dungeons and amputations. Alas everything was bought from ads and catalogs that didn't explain where it was going. If you missed this time, count yourself lucky.

I agree with what so many have said: It's the Forced part that puts me off. Some of the evil, mean spirited things in these stories boggle the mind. I could never treat any one that way even if I hated them. Nor would I allow myself to be treated so. If it was the only way out, I'd force my death.

Now, don't get me wrong, If people want to write and read it, I'll defend their right! In fact I've written it at the behest of some publishers. It was milder than most but it sold well. Where, in our world is the evil, man hating woman who does these things. I've never met her, thank God. I've even enjoyed some of the lightest forms.

And I've always considered my self a Feminist! There should be no opportunity given to one gender that shouldn't be given to all the other genders. And equal pay for equal performance!

Some feel guilty about their desires and forced fem stories give the the them the chance to vicariously live the wish without taking responsibility or blame: She made me do it!

Some of it is very well written by talented authors. They belong here too, even if that type of story doesn't quite resonate with me. We're all different and we all belong here.

My dream is a loving relationship with equal respect and sharing of responsibility and love and no concern about clothes or gender roles. Many would find a story like that insipid.

In fact, though I present as male I do well more than half of the "woman's work" and proud of it because it has helped keep my wife and best friend of 40+ years alive and able to function. No shame there!

Ole

We are each exactly as God made us. God does not make mistakes!

Gender rights are the new civil rights!

My reaction...

My reaction to forced fem has changed over the years... Go back five or six years (when I first was introduced here) when I was convinced I'd never transition... I did read and enjoy some forced fem stories... Over the years (specially after I came out to my wife, and wasn't kicked out... Quite the reverse), I came to not enjoy the stories so much. I've thought about why and come to the conclusion that before, I could picture myself being the one "forced" (And, it wouldn't have been much of a force...) - and even dreamed of it... I think this was because I figured it would be more "acceptable" to my family if it were something forced on me than something I did to myself. And, that might have been true, once.

Now that I know I'm accepted for who I am (rather than who they thought I was), I no longer need that (Though, I could use some "training" to keep my voice up... I find it dropping after an hour on the phone in a conference call... Not all the way, but dropping.) "crutch" to be accepted for who I am. (FFS has helped LOADS... I've not been "sir'd" in person in over a month now.)

But back to the point. In an of itself, there's nothing wrong with a "forced fem" story... I'm sure there are many who enjoy them. But, I'm no longer in that group. I just don't find them enjoyable any more, and it is that "forced" bit that does it to me... Even if a story is really well written and only a minor bit of the story, I find it uncomfortable to read.

That said, I'm also unlikely to negatively comment due to the fact of finding "forced fem" in a story I read. I don't know how useful that is, to be honest.

Annette

I can only agree...

Thank you Annette.
I can only agree to what you've said. in the very early beginning, more then 15 years ago I read forced fem stories happily. But like you say, some of us outgrow this. I'm free and mature enough to strongly oppose any real force and stand up against it now. My taste in stories changed very much too. While I before enjoyed the discriptions of frilly dresses and the like I now look for stories which explore the emotional changes, stories are about the changes in interaction with others reflecting on ones own changes... I even come to read a certain very heteronormative womens serial even though I'm lesbian. Yeah nothing wrong with that, but some people still believe us lesbians would despise everything man.

Anyway being more mature now, I'm rather unhappy about anything force if it is unconsensual.

Saphira

--
>> There is not one single truth out there. <<

Our Dirty Little Secret

joannebarbarella's picture

While we all deplore FF stories let me remind us of a series called "The Softening Of Jessie" a few years ago. None of us liked it but the first chapter clocked up 22000 reads and the last one over 12000 reads....and we all hate Forced Femme?

A small bit of hypocrisy out there?

Joanne

Nope, no hippocrazy here.

Nope, no hippocrazy here. Not my kind of story.

Also, 'reads' can mean 'Opened it, read three paragraphs, got disgusted, and closed it'. That's why kudos are better.


I'll get a life when it's proven and substantiated to be better than what I'm currently experiencing.

None of those were mine...

I saw the title, got a very clear idea I wouldn't like it, and never even opened it... I'm not saying it's not OK for people who need it for whatever reason, but I find it far too disturbing for myself. Everyone here has their triggering themes, and forced fem ESPECIALLY when it's not being treated as purely negative and from the sort of side of good will triumph eventually... My biggest one.

Tricked and accidental fem are different. I can usually handle those just fine and often enjoy them.

It's just the FORCED part that gets to me.

Abigail Drew.

Unfortunately, too many of

Unfortunately, too many of the stories here don't have any sort of teaser/synopsis. It may be that the posters don't know how to do one, or they figure "Hey, those three vague plot element tags should tell anyone what they need to know."

So, the only thing you can go by is the title, and then you have to open the story.


I'll get a life when it's proven and substantiated to be better than what I'm currently experiencing.

Sorry the Force part just means you are not living

... your own life but somebody else's life. So what is the point? If you feel that that is truly how your life should be then, well it's your life, but don't pretend you are much better off then having never been born at all.

Kim

Forced feminisation?!!!!!

So what about forced masculinisation or even forced polarisation. I saw and suffered enough at the hands of quacks trying to masculinise me and somehow relocate me at one end of the gender binary. Trouble was I was at neither end of their cursed binary fixation but what did they know - indeed what did I know!! All I can remember was their assorted failed 'therapies' followed by institutionalised abuse fomented by that same binary fixation.
Forced feminisation? I seems almost bearable from where I am whilst now looking back.

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