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Answering a comment to my latest installment of Necessity is the Mother of invention, caused me to remember something a friend had said 40 years ago that I thought I would share.
The two of us were sitting in the mess hall, when a bible-thumper decided that the two of us needed to be re-educated by none other than himself. How this oracle of divinity knew that the two of us needed his guidance was beyond my knowledge, but alas he placed his holy book on the table in front of us as he unwelcomely sat down and proceeded to impart his great understanding of life to the two of us.
Of course my first thoughts were, 'how in the hell do these jack-asses pick me out in a crowd?' and 'What can I do, without getting arrested, to get rid of him?'
At some point during the fountain of wisdom our new friend was monologueing worse than a super villain from a B rated movie, my friend must have noticed that I had decided that being arrested wasn't as bad as listening to this. Putting a hand on my shoulder he interrupted our would be oracle and explained that he believed, "One day giant cubes with various number of dots on each side will fall from heaven, rolling over people and buildings destroying everything in their path. And a mighty voice will be heard from the heavens, 'Dammit get your dice off the board!' "
Our mighty purveyor of wisdom left after he realized we couldn't hear him over our own laughter :)
Comments
God does not play dice...
...with the universe, which is true; Billiards is the preferred game - asteroid in the corner pocket, off of earth. >:-D
Gumby - I'm flexible
"Imagination is more important, than knowledge" - Albert Einstein
“The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds
new discoveries, is not ‘Eureka!’, but ‘that’s funny…’” - Isaac Asimov
Bible thumping
Your mistake was to think you were 'chosen' or that they pick up on some 'vibes' - nothing of the sort. You were probably at the first table with a space.
The thing to remember about bible thumpers is that everyone who does not go to their particular church is theologically wrong somewhere, and needs to be educated in the *true* way. This would include The Pope or the Archbishop of Canterbury if they were sat alone, quietly contemplating a nice cup of tea.
Next time, try derailing them by criticising the translation they are using e.g. it's too modern, or not modern enough. I don't know if it would work, but you could have some fun trying.
Sad part
The truly sad part of it is, that kind of person picks and choses which part to believe and practice while practically ignoring much of the rest especially the New Testament or more precisely the first four books of it. They look at the "faults" of others while refusing they have sins of their own. They fail to remember; "judge not for you will be judged", my paraphrase.
Showing Pity.
I came "FROM" that sort of religious environment and it took a considerable amount of time in the shot peen machine to begin to understand. The truths that we are taught should be so self evident, simply are not, and many of the "faithful" are taught that those who do not share our point of view are evil. It took me a long time to figure out that 'button holing" people is an ignorant and hateful way to rob others of their choice.
Sadly, when a devout religious person gets in trouble, the religious often attack them like a school of Piranhas. I had that experience, and I found mercy and understanding among the non-believers.
These days I still have my faith, but I think the higher practice of it is to be loving and kind to all, without reservation. Some of you are hard to love. :) Hence my failing at times. I'm not old and less patient, sorry.
It's true
Christians are the only army that shoots their own wounded.
Hugs
Patricia
Happiness is being all dressed up and HAVING some place to go.
Semper in femineo gerunt
Welcome to my world
I believe a little translation should be. "We have become so intelligent, we realize we know nothing." It is the ones who know everything and proceed to share their knowledge with all the rest of us that scares me. If they knew how and why the bible was conceived, they would understand it was for one purpose only.
This is neither the time nor the place to get into a dissertation of religions and man's purpose for creating same. Nuuan, your example of the young man is the exact purpose for which religion was created. Now before everyone wishes to burn me at the stake for being a heretic, Religion has a use but the way ninety nine percent of the way people perceive it is not right.
always
Barb
Life is a gift. Treasure it until it is time to return it.
Oklahoma born and raised cowgirl
Religion
Religion is man's attempt to reach God. Whereas, Christianity it God's attempt to reach man. It's too bad when men turn it into a religion.
Hugs
Patricia
Happiness is being all dressed up and HAVING some place to go.
Semper in femineo gerunt
The way I shut down...
... idiots like that are by asking them only one simple question...
That question is as follows:
"How can a seemingly logical reasonable human being willfully choose to worship an immoral, sadistic, homophobic, misogynistic, egotistical, genocidal, psychopathic rapist(Yahweh/Jehovah) as their god?"
This usually stuns them into silence and then I walk away.
but it is the rare moments of beauty and peace
in between the chaos,
That makes it worth living."
- Tertia Hill
Good question
I disagree with the outcome. A zealot would relish the chance to quote scripture to dispute your claim about their God.
Hugs
Patricia
Happiness is being all dressed up and HAVING some place to go.
Semper in femineo gerunt
If that happens...
... I would annihilate them with my knowledge of the fairy tale called Bible...
If you take me on, you truly need to know all there is to know about the book, its true origin, its obvious lies of history, contemporary history and then you need to be able to adequately be able to defend the most inhumane monster that has ever been created in all of fiction.
but it is the rare moments of beauty and peace
in between the chaos,
That makes it worth living."
- Tertia Hill
Accurately Depicting Culture.
Much/most of what I write includes religious garb and mores in the cultural context of the story. Unavoidably, that influences the telling and outcome of the tale. It makes me sad that some readers, encountering my attempts to make the story more interesting and informative actually think that is "all about them".
It seems acceptable to depict a soldier that is trapped in an ambush, who is shooting and killing Taliban is acceptable, but trying to describe a way to bring said confrontation to a peaceful conclusion using the lessons learned in one's beliefs is not.
Frustrated.
Antidotes for religious zealots who proselytize
I've had missionaries do the same thing to me. They will sit down at my table in a public place- like Starbucks- and start talking about their flavor of God. I find it very offensive that they presume that their belief system is the only correct one and that mine, therefore, is wrong because I don't go to their church.
If I'm wearing my favorite tee shirt (available from CafePress) that says " "May the God of your choice bless you" I point it out to them and they usually get red faced and leave. If I'm not wearing that tee or they otherwise don't get the message, I tell them I'm pro choice- including in matters of faith and that while they are welcome to their belief system, I am as well. If they won't leave, I tell them that I don't buy anything-including God- from salesmen who cold call and intrude upon my time, that I doubt if the management of the establishment allows people to solicit customers and harass them and if they don't leave I will complain to the manager.
Disclaimer: I'm a Christian and sometimes vocal about it.
That said, as a Christian, it's unreasonable for me to think (or demand) that everyone else live according to my standards. (OK, not mine, but God's as outlined in the Bible, but I've internalized them and made them mine.)
Likewise it is unreasonable for those who are not Christian to lecture me about a "Christian attitude or action." Hearing non-Christian say, "That's not very Christian," is as offensive as a Christian proclaiming their beliefs in a loud demanding tone.
Now, on to the meat of what I want to say. A big part of Christianity is witnessing. How one goes about that is a point of huge debate, especially among differing denominations. From my point of view, any Christian who openly says that their church is the only one making it to heaven is the one who's on shaky ground. My reading of the scripture leads me to believe that God will meet us right where we are, hence different denominations.
My personal brand of witnessing includes and is based on me living what I preach. My personal life needs to be my greatest witness. I need to be willing to go the extra mile for others... all others, not just my Christian brothers and sisters. I need to be willing to turn the other cheek when someone offends me. If I lead my life in such a way that fulfills Christian teachings as I understand them (and I won't say that I really understand all that I know about being a Christian, but I try) then non-Christians aught to be able to tell I'm Christian, or at least different than the world at large. Likewise my lifestyle aught to be attractive enough that they are at least curious as to what it is that makes me different. Then, when the subject comes up and I expound on my beliefs, it should be in a non confrontational way so they will listen.
When the opening gambit is, "I'm right and you're wrong and here's why," it's entirely reasonable that the target of the "Bible thumper" reject everything they have to say. In order for me to persuade you to consider my belief over yours, I must first have established enough of a relationship with you that you respect me enough to hear me out without going into a defensive stance from the get go.
It is important to understand that when a new convert hears the message and takes it to heart, they often feel the need to take literally the verses found in Matthew 28:19-20: "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you." They then go out to convert the world. It usually takes about two years for them to understand the world doesn't want to be converted and that plowing head on into those who object to hearing what they have to say causes more harm than good.
In closing, I'll apologize to all of you who've come across these folks on behalf of Christians everywhere. They've gone about it wrong and it's my hope and prayer that they will see the error of their ways.
Hugs
Patricia
Happiness is being all dressed up and HAVING some place to go.
Semper in femineo gerunt
A thought on reading my own comment
There was a man who died and much to his surprise found himself being greeted by St. Peter at the Pearly Gates. St. Peter asked him, "What denomination do you belong to?"
The man replied, "I'm not really sure. I didn't attend church on a regular basis."
"Well," said St. Peter, "Why don't I just take you around to the different groups and you can observe them and when you see one where you fit in, you can join their group."
So the went to observe all the different groups; thousands of them. The man couldn't seem to find one that appealed to him. Finally St. Peter said, "There's only one group left, but you'll have to peek at them from behind this cloud and be very quiet."
"Why's that?" the man wanted to know.
"Because they think they're the only ones here."
;o)
Hugs
Patricia
Happiness is being all dressed up and HAVING some place to go.
Semper in femineo gerunt
The great truth of the Bible
First: The Bible was compiled from a larger number of source documents.
Second: The prime mover was a Roman emperor.
Third: the Old Testament is a condensed version of the Jewish Torah.
Fourth: the New Testament can be summarized: god loves us, heaven is a good place, we should all want to go there, we all need to be excellent to each other (yes bill and ted).
Fourth: the Jews are gods chosen people, the Muslim Arabs are their cousins, as gentiles we Christians are the people who chose god.
Fifth: god will accept no excuses for not being excellent to each other.
See? Really simple. No Christian can be hateful or intolerant or uncaring. Violation of the excellent law invalidates any claim to be Christian. My prosletization are confined to two things: 1) public affirmation of my faith (like this) and 2) caring service to others (my wife and I were called to Nursing). Check the last Narnia book for a view of heaven and the inclusion of other faiths in it.
Enough said.
BAK 0.25tspgirl
binary and blind
Is what most thumpers are.. If its not written therin its not worthy.
alissa
It's even worse than that:
It's even worse than that: they pick the parts of the bible which suit them. And if a text in the bible can interpreted in more than one way then they claim that they're the only ones with the authority to interpret it correctly. In short they tell their followers what to believe. And the people who believe the priests give the priests power over them. It's a form of dictatorship.
Religion & I Believe Statements
The world is in a complete mess and it’s all caused by religion. All religions revolve round what their followers consider to be absolute non-negotiable truths, their I believe statements. They do not believe these as a result of logical discussion and thus can not as a result of logical discussion be persuaded to abandon them. The result is all discussion between those with different I believe statements is pointless.
But what of the atheists? Their I believe statement is simply they believe none of it, so it is pointless to try to come at them with questions like, ‘ah but what if you’re wrong?’ because like believers they cannot be persuaded to abandon their stance by logic or anything else. Truth is most don’t care what anybody else believes because clearly all others are idiots simply because they are doctrinally different, which is of course a classic believers stance that all believers seem to hold in common.
Most atheists believe that all should be allowed to believe as they choose and to behave as they choose given the proviso that everybody else has the same right, so the moment someone’s behaviour affects someone else it must be subject to control. Whose? Theirs of course because they are the only ones who know the real truth, everybody else’s truth is corrupt, again taken from classic religious doctrine of many flavours.
Given those beliefs the problem arises when adults inculcate their children in their own beliefs.
Atheist believe that to be utterly abhorrent and immoral which of course is complete nonsense because how else will children learn what is socially acceptable behaviour if not by inculcation? So it all boils down to this Everything is ok as long as it agrees with the views of the person considering the situation and Everything else is not ok. This is of course the status quo, so all is well with the world there is no mess at all.
I by the bye would be an atheist but as an article of faith its a little too much like a religion for me. Do I actually believe all this? Possibly but probably not. I don't do belief because bitter experience has taught me sooner or later it lets you down, that hurts, and I contend no rational being enjoys pain.
Eolwaen