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OK, well actually there are a lot, a lot, a lot of things I don't understand, see at least two-thirds of the blogs posted in the last -- well forever, and the list grows everyday. But here are some that have hit me in the last few days, starting with, maybe, the easiest.
Underlines Why isn't there a little button to underline this instead of having to use bold? Bold seems overdone; but don't worry, Erin, I can cope with it.
Schools: Why do people smart enough to write stories not know what ages people go to school or to different grades? You start first grade when you are six! Actually, these days you must start Kindergarten when you are five most places, and in a growing number of places pre-k at four. That means 9th grade at 14, etc. There are a few places, most of the northeastern seaboard I think (maybe a few others), where the cut off is the age on December 31, but almost everywhere it is the age on September 1st. (My birthday is August 31, and I spent my life aware of being the youngest possible in each class.) Anyway, I was reading a story last night (not here, not even on a TG site.) where some guy embarrassed about starting collage at 18. Big deal, does he only know geniuses? But it does seem to cause confusion fairly often
This, of course, only applies to Americans writing about Americans. I don't understand the British system but can usually just go with the flow. (Is it really common for people to quit school at 16? In some schools I know that refer to grades as forms, 7-12 is the same as forms 1 to 6; where is upper sixth then? And in old books there was an upper fifth too, and now there are no forms at all, I guess.)
Now for some tougher questions.
Humiliation: What is the attraction? It is beginning to feel like half (OK, maybe a third) of the TG stories I start (I seldom finish them.) involve the protagonist being humiliated publicly. Why? This isn't a rant against the stories (really, to each there own, no problem.), but I don't understand this predominances. I eventually got a handle on domination (total acceptance by both, trust, surrender equals freedom from responsibility, etc.). And masochism is sort of comprehensible. But do so many people really want to be humiliated that it is a leading fantasy?
Horrible Women: (Mothers or wifes or girl friend) This goes along with the above, I guess. But if women are the hell-bent-on-humiliation, manipulative, vicious creatures shown in many stories, how is that femininity is tied to gentleness and kindness? Who wants to be that kind of creature anyway? Yuck! (I subscribe to the latter view of most(not all) females; but do think that 'real' men can have those qualities too.)
Here, at BC, these stories don't show up as often as most places, one of the reasons I like this place so much - you are nice people, so if you are here maybe you are avoiding these stories too, but I hope some have hit these stories and might give me some insight.
Thanks for your indulgence, and (in advance) for any answers.
Hug&Joy;
Jan
Comments
No one had ever asked for it before
How's that? :)
- Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
That's service
I feel much less bewildered by life already! :) One down and three to go; thanks, Erin. I don't think I'll edit the blog though because then these replies would cause confusion in others.
Hug; Jan
I've got one
Why do the women in these stories who make their men into women, then dump them for a "real man" when they had one in the beginning. Most husband/wife stories divorce would be so much simpler. Plus like you said, I don't think most women are that evil or man hating anyways.
But, then it's all fantasy anyways (for the most part).
Huggles!!
Alexis
Rejection is
...of course, the ultimate humiliation too because in those stories the conquered is always shown off to the new beau. But that seems to violate the whole acceptance/trust thing of domination, doesn't it. Dominatrixes (and dominators) should have a line in their code of ethics about that kind of thing.
Hugs, Jan
Pavlov's Dog
Hey Jan!
I don't think I can rationally explain the desire for humiliation. It's not rational. I think it shows just how Pavlovian sexuality can be. An adolescent is ashamed of their desires, and then somehow the shame itself becomes linked to arousal, and then to punishment. And since women aren't the object of my affliction, when I want to read something along those lines it's usually stuff with no t.g. element, but a female heroine(?)/
victim, who will I identify with for my idiot thrill. But this is close enough to all this femdom stuff---just a different cast of characters---that I'm in no position to look down my nose at its many fans. You will notice
I am not over at the BDSM Library site right now. Those stories all run together, they're all so damn similar, obsessed with a small number of highly ritualized elements, and unless I'm in a certain mood- BORING! The stories here cover such a gamut of experiences, viewpoints, styles, genres; and they satisfy both so much more deeply and on so many more levels, that my reading runs about 100 to 1 in favor of stories like College Girl, The Protector or anything by Angela Rasch over the kinky shit. And like I say, when I do it's never in the femdom realm. Maybe it's that the feminizing is in itself degrading, whereas it isn't with me.....I don't like or really want to read about HORRIBLE WOMEN. My richest and most rewarding friendships have always tended to be with women. I like friendly women---either t.g. or g.g.---who are warm, accepting, sincere and honest, and that I can be warm, accepting, sincere and honest with in return; and slowly learn to be kinder toward both others and myself.......And that's better than some strange game of objectification.
Don't get me wrong, I like men like this too, but due to whatever
hang-up of my own I am not as instantly comfortable around them.
Joy indeed! Laika
PS: And thanks for the underline button, Erin! It'll really help the stories, especially...
And remember...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifLqzLEB3E0
underscore
Underlining is only supposed to be used in handwriting where italic is appropriate in typesetting.
Underline
Also, according to the new rules of HTML, underlining is to signify a hyperlink and apparently should not be used outside of that.
I had only just got used to "i and b" and have been told I must now use "strong" or "em". It's all very confusing.
Bah
[i] and [b] still works, though. And I turn off the auto-underlining of hyperlinks -- it bothers me. The text is already a different color.
Edeyn Hannah Blackeney
Wasn't it Jim Henson who said, "Without faith, I am nothing," after all? No. Wait. That was God. Sorry, common mistake...
Strong Emphasis
Yeah, the idea that strong and em don't mean bold and italic is some nonsense dreamed up on a committee designed by a horse. A lot of these supposed new standards is just someone throwing something in the well because he doesn't like the taste.
The standard is what everyone uses and all modern browsers support b=strong and i=em because if they don't they are breaking thousands of websites for no reason except some committee members prejudice. Same for underlines and color chnges for links. Both work and both can be used for other things but color changes are the true standard here.
Depending on the font, underline sometimes works better than bold for "strong emphasis". The usual font here at BC is Georgia and either works okay.
Hugs,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
Shame and flagellation
... I sort of get, even public and the self inflicted kind, but not degradation. I was raised in one of the sects famous for instilling guilt but .... I don't know, just doesn't get to me that way. And it's not the existence but the amount that surprises me. Do you think that it is just that the people who feel that way write much more? There are whole sites dedicated to it, and with out any other kind of BDSM attached. Doesn't anyone want to cuddle and kiss and you know what any more?
I like almost half of the men I meet, and I dislike almost half the women I meet. Golden retrievers and cats are the only things I am instantly comfortable around.
Hugs, Jan
theory
I think the appeal of the femdom genre to its fans probably has its roots in sexism.
The whole idea of being "less than a man", that's so ingraine in so many cultures.
Whereas a run-of-the-mill masochist just feels "less than", period.
Be glad if you don't get it...
And remember...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifLqzLEB3E0
English Schooling
I don't know whether this has changed, but the what used to be 'forms', is now 'years' and this is taken from the pupil starting senior school, which unless private, is usually a comprehensive school (as opposed to Secondary or Grammar).
The pupil will start there at age eleven and can leave at the end of the school year following their sixteenth birthday.
During these years, the pupil will learn the information for and at the end, take what used to be 'O' levels and are now GCSE's (General Certificate of Secondary Education - primary being up to age eleven).
After that the pupil can opt to do A levels - or always used to and this is where for me it gets sketchy, but years one to five were mandatory, where six was for retaking exams or going for the advanced ones. Upper sixth would have been for finishing two year courses.
So, years one to five are eleven to sixteen; sixth : seventeen and Upper sixth : eighteen.
Post School.
This is where it gets a bit confusing as a youth can leave school after his or her sixteenth birthday (or the end of the school year following) and can go to work. What he or she cannot do is vote or drink or (God forbid), become an MP. Those things cannot be done until that person reaches the age of eighteen.
The age of consent for sexual relations for men and women is sixteen and marriage can be entered into at this time too - with the parent's consent.
So it's difficult for me as an English writer to write about teenagers and sex without breaking the rules in most American states and describing underage sex.
Thank heaven's I'm not in one of those other countries where the age of consent is much lower. For instance, Spain is thirteen, Germany - fourteen, so it depends upon where in the world you are as to whether your characters are committing rape, child molestation or just getting his/her rocks off.
Curiously, the age of consent in USA varies from state to state from about sixteen (seven states confirmed) to eighteen (confirmed in seventeen states in total from sixteen to eighteen) though according to Wikipedia, many are unverified (the rest except one where it varies).
Varies according to what?
simple...hah
School is funny. I have absolutely no idea of what the US, especially College/University grades are. I've read dozens of stories talking about sophomores and who knows what else.... and basically...huh? But then I'm slow sometimes.
Here, Australia, it starts at age 5, Kindegarten, then grades 1-6 (end of year 6 at age 12)Junior School if you like. Then High School(used to be Forms 1-6) now grades 7-12, finishing up at age 18, legal to Vote and Drink. University or a college of some sort may follow. You can leave legally at age 16 or grade 10, a Trade Apprenticeship perhaps. There are some variations on that according to birthday or relative maturity maybe. I was forced against my and my teachers wishes to repeat at age 10 because I was not 'mature' enough despite constantly topping the class. Thus began my emotional and academic slide.... Hmmm, sorry, anyway...next bit...
When I first started reading TG type stories I read everything to see what there was. There is a LOT of not nice stuff out there. To a degree I can follow the Femdom/Submission stuff, there is a powerfull allure in regressing to childhood in a sense and surrendering responsibility to the lover. As you are no longer a child it inevitably gets linked with sexuality and a bit of kink to push that guilt/surrender impulse. Maybe it's a bit of child mother stuff, love as submission/use of power, I'm no Psychologist. I actually wrote a part story to play with that idea, caused me some trouble, yet interestingly it is one of the most read now... never see a comment though.... or on anything older as rule.
Humiliation in a limited sense again plays to that...know your place type thing.... but that is very often over used and abused. Not nice.
Debasement? There I don't get it at all. I am no prude and there are places I could easily visit if I chose where almost anything goes in a sexual sense... um, no thanks not my thing. Call me old fashioned. I just don't get it, sorry.
Love seems to be a word that many have no concept of. I don't claim to understand what it is, but I do 'love' the idea. Maybe we'll meet again someday.... hah, wishful thinking.
I guess most things are fine in a loving, TRUSTING, sharing enviroment. Adult consent and willing participation being paramount. To each their own and all that.
The whole thing is tied to a mixture of messed up growing up and trying to find who you are and never knowing what others might want or expect... or if you do, feeling sure you fall short somewhere. Even the most grounded kid with identity problems will still in some way be sure that they are not quite good enough. Bad enough for a 'regular' kiddie, toss in some gender conflict and it's a whole new ballgame.
See told ya's I wus nuts..... but maybe not completely. Don't know if that answers anything Jan, but hey, it was interesting putting it down. Not sure it makes any sense, but there ya go...
Kristina
Grades
I have noticed too how many of the American authors on this and other sites seem to think that school grades are easy to fathom and perhaps for their fellow countrymen, they are, but I don't know why they don't write a little more generically.
I (as you know) have had all sorts of trouble because I write in English and not American and it seems that a vast number of the readers and writers on these sites think that their fellow Americans are the only visitors or for that matter contributors.
Now I realise that THIS is an American site and to a degree I expect to have to write my stories in a mix of English and American, so what's wrong with you quoting age? After all, I have heard many times that certain students have to repeat certain grades, so saying he or she was an 'nth' grade student, does not tell us the person's age and it may be important to the reader.
So I agree with Kris, using grades to define character age is a complete mystery to me.
Grades and ages
It is how people talk, using grades instead of ages; English, Australian, Canadian and American writers all do it.
The American system is pretty simple, until college, just add 5 to the grade to get the standard age for that grade. Kindergarten is the half-day school before first grade for 5-year-olds and some places have pre-k for four-year-olds. Pre-schools for two and three year olds exist.
Words like freshman, sophmore, junior and senior don't actually have standard meanings, they vary from school to school but generally a senior is in the last year of whatever school is being discussed, then count backwards junior, sophmore, freshman.
An elementary school in the US is usually grades K-6 but might include pre-K or go up to grade 8 or even 9 or 12 in really rural areas. Rural in the US can easily mean things like 70+ miles (110+ km) to the next school. The first high school I went to had one feeder elementary that was 80 miles away, a two-hour bus ride because of mountain grades and other stops.
A school that is just grades 6,7,8 (age 11-13) or 5,6,7,8 (age 10-13) is usually called a middle school. Schools that are just 7,8 (age 12-13) or 7,8,9 (age 12-14) are usually called junior high school. Either might be called an intermediate school. There are supposed differences in the way middle schools and junior high schools are organized but the terms have become sloppy.
Secondary schools are usually called high schools for grades 9-12 (age 14-17) or grades 10-12 (age 15-17). In most states, kids can quit school at age 16 or sometimes, after grade 10.
These terms migrate to other fields, too. A freshman senator is in their first term after election. Otherwise "rookie," a military term, may be used in many fields to indicate someone new to a position. The sophmore jinx in sports is the idea that someone who has a great rookie season will suck in their second year.
Local control of schools is an ideal in American politics so stuff can vary a lot from place to place. One elementary (grades K-8 in this case) school I attended did away with the concept of rigid grade-groups for 5th to 8th (10 to 13 years) in some subjects and instead kids were grouped by abilities by subject. So I as a 6th grader (11 years old) was in 9th grade classes for English and 7th grade for math and social studies (history & geography).
College for most people begins at 18. Two-year colleges exist, called junior colleges usually, both as preparatory colleges for later "upper division" university courses and as de facto trade schools for careers like law enforcement, vocational nursing, technician, law clerk, business skills, etc. In some two-year colleges, students are called juniors and seniors, in others they're called freshman and sophmores. Usually, a two-year college that is mostly a prep-college will call them freshman and sophmores and a two-year school that is mostly a trade school will call them juniors and seniors but that's not a rule. Two-year colleges may award associate degrees, such as Associate of Arts, or Associate of Science. Or even, Associate of Arts and Sciences.
Trade schools that are not considered colleges also exist, especially for people who dropped out of high school early. These are often for such trades as carpentry, auto repair or farming. Some of these are one year or less, or might have advanced training or even advanced third or fourth year courses for things like medical technician or computer programmer.
Nursing schools can be independent two, three or four year schools offering training as vocational nurse, registered nurse or other advanced medical support degrees, even a Masters in Nursing. Or a nursing school can be part of a larger two-year college or a university.
Technically, a university is a collection of associated colleges operating under some variety of unified administration but the term has come to mean a school that offers advanced (beyond four year bachelor) degrees.
There used to be such a thing as a four-year college that basically only offered a four year degree with maybe some advanced study courses and a few masters or doctorates in restricted subjects but now most four-year colleges in the US have upgraded to universities. So much so that "college" is often taken to mean a two-year school now.
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
RE: Grades and ages
Thank you for that, but here in England, we don't talk about school years as a reference to someone's age.
In literature, I believe that we may have slightly different versions of books in order to cross the divide between the dissimilarities between what is essentially the same language.
I cite Harry Potter as an example, where the first book over here was called the Philosopher's stone. Not so in the States, where it was called the Sorcerers Stone. It's only a little thing but I believe it's one of the problems with sharing a language; different emphasis is put on different areas of the language, sentence construction can be different and key words, buzz words or product names will be different.
In the main, I don't find it a problem anymore, but what you have put in your answer is inconsistent. Not that it matters as the majority of stories are centred around adults or students who are near to or over the age of consent. However, your grades depend upon age, but sometimes they don't. Your colleges can be either one thing or another, which is something you have grown up with and understand, but to an onlooker, it's not that straightforward.
The majority of stories I have read by American authors have not included scholastic references unless it's a retrospective reference, so Stephen King and Peter Straub's Talisman only referred to schools in the most general of senses. The Belgariad or any of the other series of books by David and Leigh Eddings are set in a ficticious time and place, so that does not become an issue.
Dean Koontz has also referred to schools, but it's my belief that where this has happened, the references are rewritten for the market or target language so that it makes sense in the country in which it's released. This may not be so where the native country is concerned as it's unnecessary.
Nick
Yes, the English do it, too
"Thank you for that, but here in England, we don't talk about school years as a reference to someone's age."
I run across it frequently in English writings, not just here at BC but elsewhere. You may not think of it as referring to ages but since it functions that way, that's what it is. Americans do so more directly ("fifth-grader") but if I read a story and have been told what grade a child is in ("taking his A levels") but not what age they are, then the grade information has substituted for age information. Happens all the time.
If you're in a culture some of the quirks of that culture are invisible. As for the "inconsistencies" in what I said, they exist for two main reasons: people differ and the USA is very large with varied laws. When those variations may impact the information I'm giving, I mention it as a "confidence interval."
Consider the differences between Scottish law and English law on various topics. The variety in laws between states in the US is on that order of magnitude, if not larger in some ways.
As for language, the situation is reversed. England has more variety in accents and dialects than America does; adding Canada to the American side and not counting all the UK, just England, there's more variety in English speech than all of anglophone North America.
The Harry Potter title tweak was a publisher's decision and generally regarded as a nonsensical one on this side of the Atlantic. Books are seldom rewrittten for different English markets, part of the charm of a British publication for Americans is the authenticity of language and custom.
Hugs,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
Grades and ages
Sure you talk about grades (or years), or the like as age indication, you just don't notice because it doesn't confuse you. In "Gaby", when Jules talks about her GCSE years it tells you her age, but means nothing at all to someone on this side of the pond without a visit to google or Wiki. Same with junior school and lot of other things. Even in the emended Potter books their is still a lot more mention of which year people are in than of actual ages, and lots of American kids have learned a little about British schools because of that. (I learned from "Tom Brown's School Days", "Goodbye, Mr. Chips" and "To Serve Them all My Days" and other such, so my info is very dated.)
Also, college is fuzzy on both sides. I think it generally means a university prep school or sixth form center over there (there are some old private high schools here called colleges too.), but at least at the old universities it is also a part of the school (King's, Magdalene, Christ's. etc) (do you call universities schools?) Here too a college is part of a university, like Erin said, but is a division by field (Collage of Natural Sciences, for example.) and there are some small collages (the liberal arts collages - which aren't necessarily politically liberal and teach more than the liberal arts too) that are called that because they don't offer (or at least only very few) advanced degrees. And of course kids here always go to college (even if it is at a university), where as you people begin university. But do you begin University only after the upper sixth, ie at eighteen? That is the usual thing here.
I don't think that it is so much that people change the ages of grades but that they get them wrong! Which was the pet peeve that started all this. But it looks like, from what you said above, that first year (or form 1) is equivalent to our 6th grade, so sixth would begin at sixteen. (Thanks for the information) Here no one would be said to have finished school without a high school diploma which is usually at eighteen, or almost. Also does the academic year go from September to May as it does here (well actually from late August to mid June, but long ago it was Sept-May and still referred to that way.)? Or does it follow the calendar year with the long holiday in the middle? It seems like stories do it either way at times. Kris says that Australia is very similar to US system but is there long holiday in their summer, and the school year changed for that?
Maybe some one will start some kind of wiki site for all this, it's not just the language that separates us at times.
Thanks and Hugs;
Jan
PS, OK I was typing this while Erin was saying the same thing, it just took a while because there are people around who think I'm working. We aren't ganging up on you, Nick, I swear. JS
School systems
I've read so many stories about American schools that I believe I have an idea what the common system looks like. I have to admit I needed a bit of time to figure it out in the beginning since it's so different, not only in how years are grouped but also in the words used to describe then and the courses given in them.
For those interested I'll describe below how the system in this country (Belgium, European Union) looks like. I'll compare it with how I understand schools in the US work.
Age 3-5: Kindergarten, years 1-3. Those years are not mandatory at this time, but there's a plan to change that for the 3rd year. Very few stories refer to this agegroup. From Erin's information there seems to be little difference with the US here.
Going to a school is mandatory between the ages of 6 and 18, but there's no obligation to achive a successfull education.
Age 6-11: Elementary school, years 1-6. (called "Lower school" here). Classes are the same for all children. All lessons are given in the same room by the same teacher (with the exception of PE). There's not much difference between schools. Again, there are not many stories for this agegroup, but there seems to be no major differences with the US.
Age 12-17: This part is a bit complex. I understand that in the US children are all kept together during these years, but that's not the case here. There are four different possibilities:
1) "Middle school", years 1-6 providing general education targetting those planning on continuing their education after they reach age 18. This is considered to be the 'elite'. Lessons are given in a college (nicely confusing considering the US meaning of that word, isn't it). There's a lot of difference between schools. Students can select what they want to learn by selecting one of the 'packages' offered by the school. There's no possibility to select single lessons. Students stay mostly in the same room while teachers change rooms (except for special cases like chemistry). There are no lockers since all the stuff is kept in the rooms. Except for PE all lessons are 'brain-based'. There's no woodwork or autoshop.
2) "Technical school" providing education targetting those planning on a technically based profession. Lessons are varied depending on the kind of profession targetted. There's a lot less general knowledge offered and a lot more practical knowledge. While not as elite, this choice is considered 'decent'. Depending choices, it's possible to start as a working student at around age 16.
3) "Professional school" providing education targetting those prefering a less intellectually challenging route. Due to its nature, this is where a lot of the 'undesireable' individuals tend to go together with those with a below average IQ. I have no personal experience with those schools, but I do feel gratefull that they remove a lot of the 'bully' type students from the 'geek' schools.
4) "Art school" providing education targetting those who are talented in one of the arts (music, painting, ...). Those schools are few and special and can't hardly be compared with a 'normal' school.
Age 18+ (no longer mandatory): there are two paths here, available based on the education chosen at the previous step
1) Universities: only available for those students who either went to middle school or passed a state exam providing equal status. There's no 'applying' here as everyone who passed the requirements is automatically accepted. Lessons tend to be rather heavy on theory. Duration is either 4 or 5 years depending your choice. On completion, one can continue to become a doctor in the chosen field. Here students can pick their own lesson choices (in addition to those mandatory). Students and teachers both move around changing rooms.
2) High schools (again nicely confusing): providing education targetted less on theory and more on practical applications. Duration is either 2 or 3 years.
It's perhaps also good to know that here at age 18 one becomes a legal adult in all ways, meaning you have to vote (mandatory) and can be elected for anything you desire. Other differences with the US: getting a drivers license for a car is only possible at age 18 (but you can drive with a learners permit at age 17). Alcohol and sigarettes can't be sold to those under 18, but in reality nobody bothers to check ages. Age restrictions for movies exist, but again aren't really forced at that hard. Besides, everyone knows people in Europe aren't bothered by a bit of nudity in movies ;) Only nightclubs have a habbit of really checking for age.
I could also mention differences regarding government and police, but that would more then double the size of this explanation. Let's summerize by saying that I find the way things work in the US alien enough that I don't need to see a Martian to feel weirded out.
Hugs,
Kimby
Hugs,
Kimby
Not so different really
Kimby,
This is not very different from the US system. The ages are the same for entering different levels, and while most students are not split into different buildings at 12 in most places different students receive vastly different educations in the same building. A student who takes advanced calculus or economics in her twelfth year, will not have had many class with people who take industrial arts (woodworking, hair styling, engine repair) classes. The larger the city the more true that is I think. Also there are some 'vocational high-schools' probably much like your professional schools, and most cities of any size have separate art and music schools.
More American students begin advanced education (college, for simplicity) and, except for the very talented it is seldom free. I understand it's about 70% that go to college, but only a little more than half of those finish (getting a degree in four years has become more the exception than the rule; in part because of money.). But there are colleges, and then there are colleges. A degree (and an education) from one of he top universities or colleges is very different than a degree from Northeastern Middle State (I made that name up.)
The second big difference is the number of people going to graduate school (called post-graduate in most places, but that means something else here). Very few Americans seek PhDs, or get the opportunity to. My impression is many more Europeans do. There may be a few Doctorate engineers and a few with finance and economics doctorates, who are not teaching at University level or doing research, but it is not common. Also, there are few or no journalist or factory managers with doctorates, I believe that is different in Europe; even in education, it isn't the rule for Directors of schools to have a doctorate (although a growing number do.) (We do train a lot of lawyers, but not enough to make up the difference in PhDs.)
Thank you for the information.
Hugs&Joy;
Jan
Humiliation
Anyone who's ever read my stories knows that I'm into bondage and domination (not the heavy S and M stuff where pain is involved). I've written a lot of scenes which involve some form of humiliation, but nothing that involves public humiliation in the way you've described (other than one small seen where an airport security person opened someone's suitcase in front of people). Frankly, I don't read stories that involve public humiliation, guys who get turned into women and dumped for other men, and stories in that genre.
I'm going to take an educated guess and say that (1) the guys who like these stories are supressing some form of gender dysphoria; (2) having their girlfriends run off with another man somehow "justifies" their femininity or takes their guilt away; and (3) for some unknown reason they have developed powerful mental associations between sexual arousal and being cheated on or dumped (probably has to do with something they saw, read, or experienced that left an impression on them when they were in puberty). If you're really interested, I'm sure there are tons of psychological journal articles on the subject.
This is a hard subject for me to understand because these types of stories really don't sit well with me. But all of us are bothered by certain genres on this and other TG sites, so I try not to be too judgmental.
Jodie
xoxo
Where you came from is a lot of where you're at. . .
As many know, I came to the TG fiction genre (authorially speaking) from the genre of Dominance and Submission and predominantly, female dominance. And basically, if you don't 'understand' the appeal of humiliation play and dark, wicked, 'evil' women doing nasty, awful things to you, then, you're probably not going to understand it, anymore than a happily hetero, 'glad I'm a guy' kinda guy is going to understand the concept of being a woman trapped in a man's body.
Sounds redundant, but there you have it. It is visceral, internal and it's very personal. Anyway, my first 'TG' stories (Love Witch and Go-No Go Test), were written as "Loving D/s" stories before I even knew what 'TG' meant. In both stories, I was looking for a way to push the male sub's humiliation buttons hard so that he'd overcome that for his Mistress, and in each case, the choice was some type of feminization. Mostly, that concept of feminizing a guy being humiliating dates back to my youth in the late 1950's watching Bob Barker on Truth or Consequences. About once a week, some poor 'loser' in one of his games would end up in hose, heels, dress and wig - on national television. Always wondered why old Bob never got his teeth knocked out. Probably because the ones who would have didn't get dressed, eh? Maybe the ones who did it got off on that and didn't fight it? Maybe?
Anyway, I've got some thoughts for you to think about 'why humiliation play'.
1. The sub is an 'attention slut' and gets off being the center of attention - literally. For all it's downsides, it's really hard to be humiliated publicly if everyone is ignoring you. Is that all that much different than being the class clown and getting called on it by (Mrs) teacher?
2. In 'real play', the humiliation is just that, play. The players (top and bottom) see it that way, and don't take the situation outside of the play. In other words, they still respect each other in the morning. However, the closer things get to that 'edge' where it starts feeling 'real', the higher the endorphin/adrenalin levels get, and the higher the players get.
3. Conversely, fiction provides these folks with a vicarious 'out' for their feelings, where (unlike safe, sane and consensual play) there are no limits. The awful wicked Domme can take things way beyond any limit (like to 'the operation' and turn them out into the streets), and in the end, all that's left is the afterglow and no harm done. In some ways, it is the hardline humiliation masochist's version of sweet/sentimental.
4. Finally, there's what I call the 'knight in shining satin' mode. The sub in a role of 'knight errant' (pun intended) is set challenges by his Lady Fair, the overcoming of which are steps to earning her favor. To have value in this context, the quests must push the sub in such a way that limits are at least challenged. Many times, those are situations where the sub could feel humiliation if his heart was not fully true to the goal of pleasing his Lady.
As to the women in the stories, they are like the vicarious feelings in 3 above. Always incredibly beautiful, incredibly sexy and incredibly powerful, they're carricatures that can exist only in fantasy. "I won't honor safewords." or "I don't care what you want." are okay for a thrill, but not so great when a real person is treading on your limits and your trust.
Truth to tell, most flesh and blood Dommes I have had the pleasure to know are really very nice people who just get off differently than most other folks will admit to. In fact, on the occasions I have known a Domme to have crossed over a line with a sub, they've been devastated by the experience. First, because long-term injury and harm are not their goals, even with folks who get off on sensation play (pain to us mortal types). In those cases, they have failed and HATE that (have I mentioned that real Dommes tend to be really Type A?) However, far more importantly, it is because the one thing they value more than the 'high' they get from the game is the trust they are given by their playmate.
anyway, that's my two whacks at the scratchin' post. As with everything in life, YMWV.
Jodie and Tigger, thanks.
That does help a bit. See, I can grasp the quest for the inner feminine (even forced and if transition is not accepted at the end; still it is discovery.) Also, punishment and guilt isn't that hard to see. But from what you say, I think humiliation isn't really a subset of BDSM. It is not really about punishment at all; it is more like bungie jumping without a cord, at least as a day dream. Using 'feminization' as humiliation (and the insane women involved) makes it the polar opposite of much other TG fiction (the discovery, sweet and sentimental things), but, hey no problem, I think it is quite possible and common to hold opposite ideas and ideals at the same time; I know I do it. And as I keep saying, this was never a rant against any type of story, just a befuddlement.
Joy (or at least enjoy)
Jan