To post or not to post

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At the moment I am pondering the following question

Should I continue to post stories on this site?

The reason I'm asking myself this is this comment I received relating to my latest story.

"had there not been a spelling mistake or a punctuation mistake or a french mistake or a descriptive mistake or a word usage mistake just about every paragraph"

I feel that comment is just about as damming as it can get. The person who said that is basically saying I'm a crap writer and should turn to them to edit my work.

The style I write in is my style, my english, my vocabulary and one that I've been using for the past 60 years. I can't change and feel that I'm far too long in the tooth for that.

Do I stop posting here or not? that is the question. I write for fun. When it stop being fun then I'll stop. At the moment I'm minded to stop posting here which is a real shame as I feel that I've just got my writing mojo back again after a pretty lean year or so.

I'm pretty down at the moment about all this.

Comments

to postor not to post

Please ignore the jack*** that wrote that comment. I am not the brightest bulb in the string ( my formal education ended in the 4th grade.)I for one love your stories, so write for both of us and damn the rest. I VOTE that you keep going and enjoy what you do ( I wish I could write.)

Reader complaints

If the comments you are talking about are related to 'Promises Can Get You Into Trouble', they must have been sent to you as a private comment. I had not yet left a comment on that story, but I thought that story was excellent. There were no aspects of the story that could have considered undesirable and it was actually a sweet story.

To be honest, I cannot recall having issues with spelling or grammar. I think that I'm not the only one who would have the attitude that minor errors are not as important as the quality of the story itself. We all get negative reviews at times. Please do not let them be the deciding factor as to whether you are going to continue writing. It's like you said, you write for fun. You can always tell the more vocal critics that they are getting what they paid for. :)

I don't see such a comment on

erin's picture

I don't see such a comment on the story, which would be a violation of Rule One and subject to removal. I don't know what to tell you if you received it through some other channel.

Take it as a compliment that this person likes your storytelling and wants to help with the more mechanical tasks of writing like checking for spelling errors?

At any rate, I think you will find that BC has a MUCH lower count of openly critical comments than any other site unless you run your own. And if you do want to operate your own site, we can set it up and host it for you for free.

But I'd prefer you keep writing here and don't let criticism dissuade you from sharing your stories. We're all in this for love, amateur in the original sense of the word. And you do have people who love your stories here.

Hugs,
Erin

= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.

Thanks

Erin,
The comment was sent as a Private Message. I've blocked that person from sending further messages.

Checking for spelling error is one thing which is strange as I know that at least 90% of the story was spell checked with a British English checker. However the rest of the comment does I feel indicate that I can't put more than two words together correctly.
The techinal papers that I presented at an industry conference last month didn't draw similar criticism so to get such a scathing comment really hurts.

One thing I know from my professional life is that delivering criticsm is an art form in its own right. If I tell someone that 'they are crap at theit job' or 'that was really bad and you should start again', I would deserve to get a roasting from my boss.

At the moment I am still undecided about posting any more. I think I'll have to sleep on it and see how I feel in the morning.

Do not worry.

I can just about guess ...

Some people are just too ignorant to know that people from all over the world post here and what they write is correct in their country. America is not the center of cultural development. Perhaps I shall go back to using the UK spell checker, just because I can. Realise is just as correct as realize, and a tyre is still a tire, and a plonker is still a turd. Alhumduallah still means praise God.

If you go over to storysite you may be able to find some of my first stories, which Christal fixed. We all start somewhere.

G

Spell checkers

You are quite right that spell checkers pick up most of the incorrectly written words in a story, but they can't do anything about a word being replaced by an incorrect, but correctly spelled, word. For example, "For the second time in as many fours...." passes a spell checker but fails to convey the required sense of "For the second time in as many hours....".

These little things are what can be found by using a second pair of eyes.

I am sorry that someone's comments caused such grief. I am sure they meant to be helpful.

Couldn't we all

Patricia Marie Allen's picture

I recently up graded to Office 2010 and while it has an enhanced grammar tracking and catches many of those kind of things, it still didn't catch that when I ran a test on it.

Hugs
Patricia

Happiness is being all dressed up and HAVING some place to go.
Semper in femineo gerunt

MS Grammar Checker

Is well known for its often somewhat strange behaviour.

In once case the only way I could get it to pass a sentence was to totally re-write it. Strangely the Mac version of Office didn't complain at all.

Spelling & Puncuation! Bah!

Hypatia Littlewings's picture

Big name professionals have paid proof readers.
They also write in whatever style English they prefer,
and get away with it too.

Here it's the story that counts.
And you do that part good!
.

I type so bad that if it wasn't already a sort of word they would call them hypos because of me instead of typos. *giggles*
~Hypatia >i< ..:::

S & P

And yet, in pretty much every book I have ever purchased I STILL find misspellings and missed punctuation. Even now, the Editor's for J.R.R. Tolkien's Lord of the Rings are still making corrections that either keep getting missed or even added in with each edition. Because of this, I pretty much ignore typo's here because either the story was self-editted or the Editor is a volunteer who is not a "Professional" Editor. I don't read the stories here to critique them, I read them to enjoy them, mistakes and all. Hell, sometimes I feel that the typo's make for a better story.

Keep Writing please

Don't let the emotional vandalism of your work put you off your realy wonderful work. I like your work and I find it imagintive and very well presented. Please remember that even Hemingway and Will Shakespeare made mistakes. Mistakes show you are trying , creating and succeeding.

Huggles
Michele

With those with open eyes the world reads like a book

celtgirl_0.gif

No weakness

As Hypatia noted, pro writers have professional editors to examine their works. They also get galleys from the publisher which are read yet again for errors. After all that work errors still slip by!

I'm sure you can get somebody to read over your stuff before posting,and it's your decision how much you want them to do. From a simple spell and punctuation check to full-on editing, it's whatever you want. And after you get their 'corrected' copy back you can use whatever you want to use and ignore the rest. 'Cause at the end of the day it is your story and you need to feel good about it. Then the buzzards and the crows will come and pick over it. You can't control them so just do what you want.

I have several people on here that are willing to sort through my garbage and tell me what they think. They are my friends so I take what they say seriously. On the flip side I've done the same for them, from correcting spelling and punctuation errors to flat out editing the way a story is worded. At that point the author takes control and uses whatever he or she wants.

One last comment about your tech writing. From my own experience I know that the style of writing varies depending on what is being written. From writing police reports to writing for newspapers to writing for broadcast media to writing stories for BC, the style varies widely. You can do a very creditable job of writing tech papers and come out looking really bad writing for broadcast news. Your goals are different, your readers have different expectations, of course the writing is different and judged by different criteria. This is only a problem if you refuse to adapt to the different changes. Imagine if you will James Michener writing a police report? Or J.K. Rowling writing a newspaper article on a new road grader the city intends to buy. Makes me want to run away holding my head and screaming!

So, the goal is to adapt, learn from others, then decide how to apply that information to your writings. Don't try to slavishly follow somebody else's style, take bits from here and there and see how they work with your style.

And above all, keep writing and posting. If you turn your back and walk away, you are denying yourself a chance to grow and learn. And you are denying yourself a chance to set free a part of you that deserves a chance to give you wings to fly. And that would be the worst thing in the world to do.


"Life is not measured by the breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.”
George Carlin

I agree with the above...

Including that the PM probably came from a doofus that doesn't realize that the English language has many variations not just American. And if we want to get technical... It's American that's the bastard here.

Oh, and while I haven't read most of your most recent work, nothing of yours that I've read in the past had any notable mistakes given that it's in UK English and NOT American. I'm a multi-culturalist and can read, speak, and understand ALL the forms of English. Well. I struggle a bit with modern ghetto slang.

Abigail Drew.

Please don't lose heart and stop posting...

Samantha,

Spelling, punctuation, gramar and style all matter. No question. By comparison, content matters more. Storytelling ability matters more. Compelling characters matter more. I have read all the grammatically perfect, well-punctuated, boredom-inducing drivel that I care to in this life. If I never read another such piece, I will die contented.

However, I eagerly devour each piece that YOU post and enjoy them thoroughly. Sadly, there never seems to be enough of them and greedy thing that I am, I'm always waiting, hoping for more.

So, if you feel like hitting the Strunk & White and refining the mechanics of your writing, by all means, have fun doing so. However, please, Please, PLEASE don't do so at the expense of the enjoyable work you already share with us!

A grateful reader,

-- Mischief

one person chose to to have a brain fart

No one has the right to make spiteful comments about another persons writing style, each of us is different and being an international site there will always be differences in spelling and grammar.

In my opinion there's nothing wrong with constructive feedback, in fact I value such feedback on my stories because it helps me learn where I can improve my writing style. But nasty comments have no justification.

From reading other comment on that chapter it's clear others enjoy your work, yes there was constructive mention of french spelling but not in a bad way. Personally I would ignore anyone who criticized in a negative manner.

Don't stop writing because one person chose to to have a brain fart. They are not worth stopping something you do to express yourself and that you and your readers enjoy.

Big hugs

Lizzie :)

Yule

Bailey's Angel
The Godmother :p

Editor

Patricia Marie Allen's picture

I'm not sure if I've read any of your stories or not. However, I can't count the number of stories I've read here and on other TG sites that would have deserved such a comment,(even some of my own when I go back a few years) but being the compulsive editor I am, I just correct them as I read. (I cut and past the printer friendly version in to my word processor and let spell checker catch the bulk of them.) The content of the story is what's important. I will admit that there are stories that I don't finish because there are just too many things wrong, IE I just can't figure out what the author was trying to say, but that's a really rare case.

All you need to do is find an editor (I probably wouldn't do because when reading things written by the rest of the English speaking world I tend to replace it with American. I know, I know I'm messing with the authors art. I don't pass it along, I just keep it on my hard drive for my own amusement. In school I told my teachers that English was the only foreign I cared to take.)

I'm sure if you posted another blog titled "UK Editor needed" you'd get a great response and maybe make a friend along the way.

Hugs
Patricia

Happiness is being all dressed up and HAVING some place to go.
Semper in femineo gerunt

Not being privy to the entire exchange,

then of course our comments here can only guess at what was actually said.

Maybe the comment you received (which it seems must have been via a PM) was a poorly worded offer to help?

If it was, then I think there was a great opportunity there for some constructive assistance, and to know that you have found someone who is impressed enough to offer assistance.

I enjoyed the story (yes, there were a few more errors in the French than were mentioned in the comments to the piece) and I found those things that could be loosely called 'errors' that were present to be not too distracting.

I know I for one am always pleased with feedback, provided of course it is justified. I have done a fair amount of editing for people here on this site and so I am aware of the standard 'mistakes' - things like missing end quotation marks, or incorrect usage of capitals. And the inevitable typos that creep in with everyone. I must say that I get very frustrated with authors who misplace words - like heels instead of heals, or their instead of there and so on. And the other comment I seem to make most in my editing sessions is about the misuse of the apostrophe.

Just as an example, in the story under discussion (I assume from previous commenters as it mentions French) then the story starts with an award envelope being opened. The award is stated as being for the "Beat Adapted Script" or something like that - it should, of course, be for the "Best Adapted Script". The 'a' and the 's' are next to each other on the keyboard, and I defy any writer to say they have never made that mistake once. A proof-reader or an editor would in all likelihood have caught that minor slip before it was posted.

Just a thought or two.

All the best

Di

"The Cost of Living Does Not Appear To Have Affected Its Popularity"in most, but not all, instances

I feel your pain

The stories I have written thus far have all taken place in the south. So far all them have been from a first person perspective therefore my main character speaks and thinks in a southern American dialect. Let me tell you, the comments I receive in pm about grammar have all but killed my creative flow. I spend so much time worried about my style that it feels as if my characters are losing their voice.

I am trying to ignore the grammar nazis and would suggest you do the same. I very much enjoy your work.

I keep trying to remind myself that people who go to such lengths to criticize have far deeper issues and are trying, in vain, to build themselves up by tearing someone else down. The only emotion we should give people such as that is pity.

Please don't let it get to you.
Hugs,
Stef

Do post more, Samantha

Thanks for the reminder about your blog site.

I DID find Promises Can Get You Into Trouble there and I DO remember that IS where I read it before.

I forgot how rich a group of stories you have there.

Thank you for reposting some of them to BC.

If I gave any offence I am sorry. I just was wondering where I read that fine story and now I do.

You are most welcome here at BC.

John in Wauwatosa

P.S. read a pony girl tail -- snicker - of yours there and LOVED it. And normally pony girl stories turn me off. But yours was truly a loving story.

John in Wauwatosa

Thanks for the feedback John.

Thanks for the feedback John. I really didn't mean to cause offcence with my post. I can probably thank my rather peed off state of mind at the time so please accept my sincere apolgies.
I'm glad you liked the PG story.

Having slept on it

and read all the kind words of support posted here, I think I will carry on posting here.

I did try an editor who volunteered their services to me once. The edits they made to the story did IMHO make it almost unreadable. I did get some stick from that person when I posted the story without their changes. This has probably clouded my vies of the value that they can add to the story.

That said, I'm all for editing that shows real plot/story mistakes and I readlily accept points like that made in relation to my stories.

One thought that did cross my mind is

"Who edits the editors?"

to conclude:

I am really heartened by the support I have received in this post and in the comments to my latest story.
Thanks to the kind words here, I have renewed determination to ignore the 'grammar nazis'.

Thanks for everyone for their comments.

Now I'm off to Hyde Park to hopefully take some pictures of the London Triathlon.

That criticism was petty. (EEK! This somehow got very lengthy.)

Good writing has to do with things like characters, plots, themes, dialogue, description, action, imagery, and so forth. Spelling, punctuation, and grammar are not criteria for evaluating an author's story, they are criteria for evaluating a publisher.

Do try to find and fix these petty flaws if it is feasible, but do not fret. How well one spells is only about one-tenth of one-tenth of one percent of what goes into making a good story. (Unless you're doing some sort experimental writing, or the spelling, grammar, and punctuation are so thoroughly goofed up that the reader can only speculate about the meaning of a sentence. As we sometimes see when English is not the author's native language.)

Spelling and punctuation are for copy editors to worry about, and should be a secondary concern to a writer compared to those other things. Grammar is trickier to prioritize, because it sometimes can be entangled with the writing itself, while most of the time, for most stories, it is in the realm of mere copy editing.

The criticism you shared with us isn't really about the quality of your writing at all, it seems. Those kinds of errors are just fodder for a copy editor to sort out. Its like saying "gee, not very good typing". In fact, typographical errors are also included in what a copy editor fixes. But who cares about spelling errors and such? They don't reflect one bit on how good the writing is! Many of the best writers of past and present were/are abysmal at spelling, punctuation, and etc. I recall there was a recent minor flap when it was discovered Jane Austen's punctuation was horrible, or most often it was just plain missing. There is now a controversy over the intended meaning of a few of her sentences, since she wasn't one who went in much for things like periods. She is still one of the best writers in the English language. Lousy copy editor, but great writer. I suggest to her critics that we do not need to worry about the intended meaning of those sentences since they were copy edited at the publisher's and Austen reviewed and approved the results. Publishers normally and routinely have a copy editor go through each and every manuscript. Even writers with the most impeccable copy-editing skills of their own end up with a few errors to be corrected: we're all of us merely human beings, after all.

That said, I do find it distracting when there are even a few copy-edit errors in a piece, and I get downright snobby about it but keep it to myself. Because my poo smells just as bad as anyone else's. And copy-edit problems are nothing worse than a small distraction from the story itself. People do advise that, when possible, have a decent copy editor go through a story before posting it. But the writing itself should always be judged independently of mere copy editing. Quality of copy editing is a reflection on the editor and/or publisher, not the author. Professional book reviews will sometimes have occasion to comment on such errors (or lack of errors) in ink-and-paper fiction, but it is analogous to commenting on the packaging of a product being reviewed and not the product itself.

Here on the Internet, authors most often do not have the luxury of copy editors, editors, or publishers. Or, technically, each author has to be all those things him or her self.

You can run spell check and even grammar check with your word processing program, but there is a lot of stuff they will miss. As well, there are a lot of times their 'corrections' are very incorrect. If a writer is an atrocious speller, as so many are, then spell check is probably a good idea. But only accept its suggested corrections when you're sure that it must be right. If you're not sure, or are puzzled about its suggestion, or it suggests something you don't even know the meaning of, reject its suggestion and try to check with a human friend who is good at such things.

IMHO, grammar check is always a bad idea, unless one is at least as knowledgeable about grammar as the creators of the grammar check program. Grammar check programs aren't really ready for prime time yet. For instance, I know that I frequently begin sentences with a conjunction and it is a big no-no that grammar check will point out. But - I don't care, because it is my own conscious stylistic choice. A better for instance is when grammar check wants to 'fix' the grammar in a character's dialogue. No! The character should speak like that character speaks, not like a dumb grammarbot.

Try to imagine Huckleberry Finn if all the grammar, punctuation, and spelling 'errors' had been 'fixed'? It would never have become one of the most loved, admired, and influential novels in America, I suppose.

Take heart, your critic only awarded demerits to the petty stuff, not to the stuff that makes writing either good or bad. Please continue to share your future stories with us?

Annemarie
"I think we understand what military fame is; to be killed on the field of battle and have our names spelled wrong in the newspapers." -William Tecumseh Sherman

P.S. It would be good if I could volunteer as a copy editor, but for two things. One, I have disabilities that get in the way of being able to complete an assignment in anything remotely like a reasonable time period. Two, I am probably only a mediocre copy editor, anyway.