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Never liked serials when I was little. All the continued stories on radio, yes I'm that old, and later on TV were a turn off. Growing up on a farm, there were never any given spare hours where a continued could be picked up "next week". Thus I grew up hating continued stories with more than a little emotional passion and it never left as I grew up and older. My SO had the same experience and the same disgust for serials. The only exceptions were those that tied a knot on each chapter, each TV show where if it ended there, it was complete. "NCIS" Even that story grew old after a year. I stopped watching it. Haven't had a TV turned on in over thirteen years. Don't know if it even still works???
There are a couple writers on BCTS I make an exception for. Their writing talent in how they present the script (story line) is some of the best I have ever seen or read in my life. It isn't their continued story that captivates me, it is their unparalleled ability to write. I guess I'm a hypocrite myself as I read each story on this site not always for the tale but for how the author presents his or her story.
If you write for yourself and enjoy your own stories, if others make compliments or heap praise that is an extra bonus. Writers are artists. Each one carries their feelings and emotions on the surface where they can be easily hurt by unkind comments. It is both a gift and a curse as that is what makes each one so special and gifted with ability to write just as other artists are able to paint a canvas others are willing to pay thousands of dollars to take home and proudly show off. I've hurt several writer's feelings by making a comment that was not praise. I no longer leave any comment to those writers for several reasons. Mostly because I do not want to get into a debate on how they may improve their writing skills. I'm not publishing and certainly not getting paid to critic any manuscripts that cross my desk. Besides, as I have explained time and time again on this site, I am the least qualified to critic anyone. I failed virtually EVERY single English class I took. That includes college. Thus I got into publishing. God has a sense of humor. He made me.
This next isn't going to make any difference to a lot of writers because of who and what they are. ARTIST! You need to accept the comments and critics, good AND bad before you will ever improve your skills. You don't need to incorporate any of it into your talent as a writer, that is up to each individual. Michelangelo and Leonardo da Vinci did not start out as the acclaimed gifted artists they became later in life. Both reused their canvases and painted over a picture they already put on the canvas. Each and everyone of you have a common bond with all great writers, painters. You are artists. Believe in yourself, it's your story, tell it the way you want.
always,
Barb
Life is meant to be lived. Not worn until it's worn out.
Comments
Serials
Until i came to BCTS I was unable to write. I got something started, and it just died. It was when I started writing serials that things started to come together. So far I have written three fairly long books that have been well received. It is the kudos and especially comments that keep me going from one chapter to the next. I don'l like negative comments either, but if they are posted as a private message, I generally consider them as advice.
Dawn Natelle
Yes, but no
I think I almost agree, but I disagree with you regarding serials.
There are several serials on this site that I enjoy, including 'Easy as Falling off a Bike' and 'Gaby'.
I also find that some stories are just so long that they can't be published easily on this site. Consider either 'Lord of the Rings' or the four-volume 'Eragon' series. They're just too much.
I'd suggest that readers at this and most other internet sites look for stories they can read in less than an hour - perhaps as little as half and hour. Therefore, it's up to the author to break their stories into suitable segments to satisfy the average readers. Thus, the serial.
I will add that serials provide an element of suspense. The cliff hanger need not be large, either, but just enough to engage the reader and suggest that they read the next installment ... and the one after that until the conclusion of the story.
Red MacDonald
I agree, some are too long and need broken up
If you have read any of my stories you will notice there are many of them broken down into chapters. Each one a complete story before the first chapter is published. Model Makers, Huntress, Almost a Girl, Jessica Rabbit, Deity Arms, etc , etc. are all broken into chapters. (serials) Huntress was posted every two days to keep from dragging it out. BCTS is not an easy site for me to navigate nor post. Thus I had a lot of help from others to get some of those stories up and running. I didn't care how often the story chapters were posted, just get the thing up so others may read it if they wish.
It isn't how anyone wants to write or post their stories. Each and everyone is a unique individual in every single aspect of life, not only writing. If one is captivated by serials, they are the majority. TV soaps, Days of Our Lives, As The World Turns, etc.never would have got off the ground if it wasn't true. My grandmother and aunts lived for those pieces of mindless trash. Anyone who got between them and their soaps was dead meat.
Usually I'll look at the last serial chapter if it has been posting for weeks so it is several chapters into the story. I evaluate the style and content of the writer's talent. I know, last person on earth qualified to do that thing. If the author is skilled or shows promise, I'll back up a chapter or two checking for continuity and redundancy. The tale is the least important to me. It is the skill of the writer able to entrap me, drag me into the story with the actors and actresses. The setting of the stage is usually first. Where is this story taking place, Insert the actors and actresses, introduce them to us the readers so we can relate to them. Action and dialog, the story takes on a life of it's own as the author blends it all together. Writing is no different from making a movie. I don't care to see every movie made. Probably about ninety nine and nine tenths of them fall into that category. Novels and short stories fall in the same percentages or even worse.
If one is writing and posting in serials, now you know why you may not get the readership and comments you believe you may deserve. Could be your readers are waiting to see if you can transport them into the story along with all your actors and actresses. Sometimes the initial chapters might not cut the mustard and they left to read other stories with the time they have. It's common to get a high number of hits to a story, few noodles, and even less comments because it wasn't to their taste in reading material. They only picked the book up because of the cover, opened it up, scanned a few pages and put it back on the shelf.
Welcome to the World of Hell in trying to figure out what specific kind of story appeals to the most readers. Give it up, we can't capture the majority, only a certain small fraction. Ladies and Gentlemen, write to please yourself. You're assured of one happy reader.
always
Barb
When life gets too much to bare, try harder. If continuous roadblocks are ahead, you're on the wrong highway
Oklahoma born and raised cowgirl
Serials are fine
There are stories that only be written that way as the author has not enough time to do it any other way.
I can understand the disappointment of investing time into a vehicle and then having it stop without a conclusion. I have seen that in the comic book world and it is worse as you are out real money too. That is unless one goes ahead and skip to the end first before deciding to read the rest.
In the end, I can’t support your view as there are some awful non-serial novels and you still feel stupid wasting the time to get to the end.
Popularity
Fictionmania long ago did a study as to story popularity.
Shorter stories are far more popular than serials or long stories.
However - the number of serials and the number of short stories is largely dictated by what authors want to write . . . and that is how it should be.
To tailor your stories to the genre or length of the wants of readers is pandering.
Tell the story you want to tell. Seek happiness in the process and consider comments only as something that is a small part of a much longer process.
I love long stories, but many serials on BC were never finished -- so unless I have great confidence in the author to finish the serial in a timely manner I don't read it until it's finished.
I marvel at those who write serials. When I write I often don't have a clue what will happen in the first chapter until I've written the last chapter. Those who write serials are either super-writers or . . . they write themselves into a corner and drop the serial. One is to be admired, the other pitied.
Jill
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
I love long stories (up to a point)
I have been a BCTS reader for a long time, at least as long as EAFOAB. I loved Angharad's daily episodes. I especially love stories where the people do something. I hate stories where every other page is thinking about where I am, what has been happening, what everyone else is doing. How many times do you have to retell the story.
Chapter's have to come frequently to maintain interest. When one has to wait for weeks and months for the next episode interest is lost. Long time unfinished stories are disappointing. I almost suggest that a story not be published until the last chapter is written. Very often I skip to the last chapter to see if it is the end of the story. If not I'll often wait until it is finished. Although I sometimes read it anyway. I'm still waiting for Penny Cardin to continue and finish "'DD rides again." Who's the traitor? I am really glad that she continued Crystal's "Texas Gals." This has been a great story. I have reread the whole thing several times. Would someone continue it, please?
I promise not to go into problems of typos, misused words, using a wrong homonym, not fully identifying who is speaking in dialog, or overall lack of proofreading. Some authors are better than others. We just have to remember what we paid for the story. Beggars shouldn't be critical.
After all that I keep coming back to reread many of my favorite stories. I am still an avid reader here at BCTS. Be careful not to step in all the Kudos I leave in my trail. My thanks go to all the authors. I enjoy much of what you produce. Lord knows I couldn't do half as well as you do.
Much Love,
Valerie R
Unfinished stories
There are more than I can remember. Kit and Kin. First Among Fools. Glitch. Winter's Child. Alex in Wonderland. And lots, lots more.
But far be it for me to throw stones. There is also Chakats Give the Best Hugs, Out of Retirement, the Sweet Sixteen series, A New Life...
But I do intend on finishing all of my work. Honestly and truly. You'll know if I don't succeed only if I end up dying first.
Alas, that has happened to a few series on this site.
maybe
We need to define a 'serial'. EAFOAB was written from the outset as a serial, a daily soap opera. As far as I know, Ang had/has no ending planned - a true serial.
OTOH, whilst my Gaby series is posted here chapter by chapter, its a serialisation of a completed 'book'. This is how many Victorians read the likes of Dickens, weekly excerpts from the completed manuscript. I did originally post the first couple of Gaby books complete here on BC but they were too long and unweildy for many readers which is why I started posting chapters. For those interested, there are currently over 200 chapters of @ 1500 words each in the posting queue. At the usual rate of posting that's a solid 2 years plus of regular dollops of Gaby!
I guess the link between EAFOAB and Gaby is that the overall story is incomplete, one because it's a serial, the other because I haven't written the last volume of the saga yet! So whilst EAFOAB is the longest running serial on BC, Gaby has been posted over a longer period of time but only runs to @ 840 posted chapters! Semantics.
Personally I do like some serials but I also enjoy completed works, whether posted in full or chopped into smaller segments.
Mads
Madeline Anafrid Bell
Series...
Kinda like Gilligan's Island. Each show is a complete story. So really, it is a collection of stories that share the same setting and cast. You could watch one without having seen any others. You can watch them in any order you like.
God does have a sense of humor...
I've written stories that were NOT going to be a serial and they unraveled into a series. I've also taken a longer story and, on purpose, broke it into a series thinking it would result in more reads overall. So I write until the story is done.
I'm so grateful to have found BC... it's been an outlet for me.
BTW: God does have a sense of humor... in a way the Bible is a serial! (no offense intended)
Regards to all
Dee
Donna
No Apologies
This is just my opinion and not worth much. It won't even buy you a cup of coffee.
I like certain types of stories and the rest just fall flat. Presently I like "The Trials and Tribulations..." and "Twice Removed" and not much else. I liked "Bike", but all good things come to an end. Penny Lane's "Somewhere Else Entirely" was very good. "Deception Of Choice" saved my life.
Bronwen Welsh and Brooke Erickson always get a look from me. Casey Brooke also. Daniel A Wolfe's "Battle For Earth" was great.
There are others, but the tank that holds my cognitive resources has a leak, sorry.
My own writing was mostly me writing out my own pain and what I had hoped could be in life. Most of the good who had vision and tried to please a higher power were murdered. I'm hoping to follow their good example. Most people seem to think that what they think has more value and I leave you to it.
Cliff hangers
I'm not fond of series that drag on or that quit in the middle, but it comes with the territory when you read non-commercial literature.
What I dislike more is cliff hangers that let you hang for months or years or forever. I read a story several years ago where the protagonist was running (actually driving) for her life out of Las Vegas. The bad guys were catching up. I later heard that the author didn't intend to finish the story.
It's my not so humble opinion that cliff hangers are not high art. They started as a commercial strategy to get you to the theater or radio for the next exciting episode.
But series? Well, we web writers' only pay is comments and kudos. It's difficult to have the self discipline to keep writing. It's even more difficult if it's all sitting on your hard drive and you aren't receiving those sweet, sweet comments. Or the crits. I don't mind critiques. Some do, so I step lightly.
And, of course, there's the 'flighty muse syndrome.' Most of us get it. We are going great guns on one story, and the naughty muse says, "Let's take a break on that one because I have this great idea for a completely different story."
But I try to cut each chapter off at a decent spot. That doesn't mean that every plot thread is tied off neatly. It just means that someone isn't wondering if the protagonist is going to climb up the cliff or let go and plummet.
Ahh... Cliffhangers
In far too many TV shows (seemingly always written by teams of writers fresh out of college) you can it coming a mile away.
such as
A 'main character' gets shot and is fighting for their life.
Ugh...
I have to hold my hand up and admit that I do seem to end up with a good number of them in my tales.
My defence is that
1) I don't plan my stories in anywhere near enough detail to literally 'design them in'
2) I write a chapter until I feel it that I've told the bit of the story that I wanted to in that part and if there is a cliffhanger then it really (scouts honor!) that it is just a link to the next part of the tale.
3) Most of my ideas come to me while lying in bed in the early hours of the morning. If I remember them clearly when I start writing then great but often I only have a general idea about where the story is going in that part before I start writing.
But... rest assured, I only post stories here that are complete here apart from tales like 'County Sheriff' where each part is a self contained story. (There are three more parts of this series 'in the can' and will appear here late this or early next year) and 'The forsythe saga'. That is complete apart from some bits in the middle. The final chapter is done but there are a lot of things that need sorting before that part will work neatly with the rest of the story.
I just wish that more people would comment. It is either that or what I'm writing does not appeal to readers. Without comments the author has no way of knowing what their readership really thinks.
Samantha
Cliff hanging
I have to admit that my PRINCIPAL reason for using cliff hangers is NOT to get readers coming back but to leave ME in a place where I have something definite to write. Secondary is that cliffhangers spur comments. Third, and very weak, is that they MAY get people to come back or at least be looking for the continuation.
I had a comic strip I was doing with an artist but it sort of fizzled and never saw publication, it was called Cliff Hangeur, Orangutuan-at-Large, about an orangutuan private detective. :) Now there was a fellow who could hang from a cliff for DAYS.
Hugs,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
Cliff-Hanging
My rule is not to post any part of a story until the story is complete. It's a good thing, because otherwise, I might have many incomplete stories posted now. As it is, I only have two multi-part stories here (and on Fictionmania.tv) and a third on ASSTR.ORG.
I violated my rule a little, when I started posting my BB story on Fictionmania, in that I began posting before I got the final parts back from Elrod. Fortunately, it didn't cause delays -- and I was able combine parts when I realized that Fictionmania posted only one per day.
My purpose for ending a part in a cliff-hanger is to torment the reader.
-- Daphne Xu
Cliff hangers
I've been holding to the rule that each book needs to be drafted before posting any of the 'parts'. The second book had tons of cliff-hangers both at chapter endings within and at the cap of each part, but the rest got put up pretty quickly. The drawback to that though is it took a lot longer than expected to get book 3 drafted so I'm sure some folks thought the overall story was going to remain unfinished. Really hoping life permits the fourth one getting done faster, the entire arc of the whole silly thing is in my head and I'm eager to discover the details of how everything actually gets to that ending.
I will admit thinking that maybe posting each book chapter by chapter would get more comments, lol.
Chapter...
... by Chapter. Do you mean one chapter a day? Or do you mean each chapter as it's finished? The latter would entail abandoning the rule, of course.
I do hope that, once I get a long story done, that I manage to restrict and restrain myself to posting one part per day -- and not rush things. I hope I do get more comments that way.
-- Daphne Xu
Yup
I get where you're coming from Barb.
When I first started writing Adrian I was posting it bit by bit on another site. Some of the mistakes I was making were horrendous. Not punctuating correctly and not making it easy for people to understand who was currently talking. When someone told me I immediately replied with I would do my best to fix it. All I really did is go back to 'reading' another book and edit mine to do the same that they did. I believe they came back a few chapters later and really liked the improvements. I'm so tempted to do the 1st draft of my second book as a serial here because of the great feedback I got from the last book.
I guess my problem is that If I do that I have to self publish. Everyone seems to want first rights to your story. The problem with self-publishing is that I have to learn a whole new set of skills like marketing and stuff like that. Truthfully I pulled down parts of my second book because I had to do a major revision of what happened and because I'm scared of publishers not wanting my book because of first righs issues. It's all so frustrating.
Failure isn't exactly failure
Only those who quit or never try are failures. Researched all the publishers that worked with the genre the novel fell in. Found the editors who are the first contact for each publisher. Contacted close to twenty agents who handle those kind of stories. Every publisher, agent requests a synopsis of the story in two pages or less be included with the manuscript. Basically it does the same work as a book cover does to the reading public. Supposedly draws enough attention they will at least look at the manuscript. Publishers do not return un requested manuscripts. If they don't accept it, they send a postcard or a four line answer in a letter.
As I look at the publishing reviews several writers I haven't ever heard about are signed to a six figure contract. I wonder if it is the same concept behind handing the Clintons, Obama, etc. million dollar book deals for a story I know they didn't write themselves. Six months after Clinton's book was published the industry was trying to dump it in second hand stores for fifty cents apiece rather than haul it back. It would still be labeled as a sold book.
There is nothing right in politics nor publishing. Both deal in lies, deception, and cutthroat dealing. NYT Best Sellers are more about who is buying who favors and bribes..., gifts, than actual readers and sales. Even ebooks aren't above the fray.
The best advice I can give to all writers, is write what you like. Do it for the enjoyment you receive. You want a physical book? Contact one of the On Demand Publishers and have them print up one or a hundred for you. If you're doing it thinking you will be the next Steven King? Remember what I wrote about fifty thousand hopefuls travel to Hollywood hoping for a chance, even as an extra, making the Big Screen and maybe one might make it. That is as clear a picture I can give everyone about writing. The chance of winning the lottery is probably better.
You are ARTISTS, never ever give up hope nor trying but while you are doing all that, make one person pleased with your talents. Yourself.
And if you make it big time, send me a raspberry and your autograph. I promise I'll probably be more pleased than you.
Hugs to all you incredible writers. I believe in you. Looking back and thinking, "I wish I had" won't make your future any better. Don't do it.
always,
Barb
Life is meant to be lived. Not worn until it is worn out.
Almost every successful writer has the same kind of experience trying to get published unless they already know all the social circles and part of that crowd.
Oklahoma born and raised cowgirl
the rumour is
That Mrs Clintons reveal all book sold about 500 hard copies in the UK before being remaindered. As I understand it, remaindered titles are not included in sales figures for top sellers.
One of the big dishonesties inpublishing is the use of 'No1 best seller' on book covers. This usually means it's a pile of poo by an author trying to cash in on a previous success! If it is the truth it is likely referring to a specific genre. For example, several of the Gaby books have been no.1 best sellers on Amazon, the small print is that it relates to the genre of Juvenile sports books - I think one did get top ten in junior fiction. To put no1 best seller o. The cover of a new title is a cynical ploy to drag readers in. Does it work? Maybe I should try it and find out.
Mads
Madeline Anafrid Bell
Remaindered
Are unsold books shipped back to the publisher and recycled or shredded, If the book isn't received back but sent on to the second hand stores, dollars stores, Salvation Army stores, etc. (and supposedly sold) they are counted as sold. Not that truthful about how many books were purchased from "first printing", but not an actual lie.
The honest truth is far from what most of the public believe it is. Just as each and every new manufactured vehicle is sold as a "new vehicle". Those that carry over too far into the next new car year are often discounted heavily to rental companies, or as pre owned vehicles, or various other means of moving them out of new vehicle inventory.
The way the government and business world works is no where close to what the general public are led to believe. 1984 has come and gone. The sad part is most never realize they are living it. If it helps anyone to retain their own peace of mind, it would probably help to think of me and those like me as crazy as a Hoot Owl. It's the main reason I enjoy the excellent tales and unbelievable writing skills of the authors on BCTS. It lets me escape.
always,
Barb
Oklahoma born and raised cowgirl