People vs Deathstalker corps.

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Some of you said some harsh things to me the other day about my last chapter which is unfortunate because you didn't have a clue where i was going with it and is wasn't some P.O.S femdom crap.

Actually those girls were all in Chris's shoes the year before. It was just a hazing like in college and Chris was going to refuse(yes the mining on an airless moon was a total bluff) till they finally call his mom and ....oops guess what shes was an SX-98 candidate(the old version) who would eventually convince him.

However, I'm not going to keep writing a story that people called a piece of sh@#. Sorry its deleted and done.

Thank you so much for your concern and for the actual CONSTRUCTIVE criticism some of you've given me

A friendly place to read, write and discuss Transgender Fiction. remember? Cause its the mantra of the home page in case you forgot

Comments

I'll be honest - I didn't

I'll be honest - I didn't like the way the last chapter was going. That said, I was giving it the benefit of the doubt for the next chapter or two, because it's a _serial story_.

That means that information isn't always there.

HOWEVER, and this is a big one, aimed at ALL of the authors out there. If you're going to write something that will be controversial - torture, implied domination, and similar - you WILL get nasty comments. The solution to that is simple. DON'T STOP THERE. If you have a chapter that you know is going to tick someone off, be sure to write the _next_ section, then post them together.

Otherwise, be certain to write that "this chapter contains something nasty, but it will be explained in the next installment".

If you decide to abandon the story, I won't blame you (I didn't read the comments, so I don't know what they said). If you continue the story, I will continue to read it. It's your story, nobody's going to hold a rock over your head and say "write!" (Okay, maybe a Muse or two. )


I'll get a life when it's proven and substantiated to be better than what I'm currently experiencing.

Sorry, this is bad advice

erin's picture

To all authors, write the story you are going to write, not the story someone else thinks you SHOULD write.

If you get nasty comments, tell me, I do act on such complaints.

Hugs,
Erin

= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.

= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.

What? Erin, I think you

What? Erin, I think you need to re-read my comment. You've obviously misunderstood something. Nowhere in there did I suggest that anyone needed to write or not write anything in their stories. What I said was that if you write stuff that's controversial, you'll get nasty comments, or at least comments that say "I don't like that!". I didn't say attack comments, I said _nasty_ comments. It happened with Becoming Robin/Robinverse, it happened with Catwalk Confidence, it's happened with a number of other stories as well. Denying it doesn't make it so. Deleting comments after the fact doesn't change the fact that comments get posted!

Those stories where the author said straight out that something dark was going to happen, but hold on for the next installment, had far less negative commentary than those that have just jumped straight out and dropped it on people's heads.

I was originally going to do this as a PM, but I felt that it really does need to be said out in public. I don't feel that posting a warning is bad advice. I do think that attacking people (deleting comments) for not liking what is going on in a story is not good behaviour, and certainly doesn't improve things. There's a difference between "This is horrible. I can't believe that John the Bartender has become a serial killer! I don't like the way this story is going." and "This story is horribly written! John the Bartender can't be a serial killer, and your story is crap by saying he is!"

From the way you posted, you'll delete both comments because they aren't 'nice', and tell the author what to write. (I'm not saying you truly will, but that's how your post came across. )

Not every story is a love story. Not every story has a happy ending, or a magical middle, or a plot full of gaiety. This is a good thing. I'll admit that I detest stories like 'Death of a Salesman', but that doesn't make it any less of a powerful story. The way a story is written determines the type of commentary it's likely to attract. Stories with hot-button themes will attract radical commentary - of both polarities - towards those themes. Stories without those themes will attract middle of the road commentary, more oriented towards the story than the themes.

I think I've covered most of the bases here. I'll reiterate that I didn't particularly like the 'hazing' scene, but it certainly didn't make it a bad story. I withhold judgment until at least the next chapter of a story that's going a way I don't like - because unless it's a 'complete' story, we don't have complete information. I'd much prefer to see the story continued, but that's up to the author - not me.


I'll get a life when it's proven and substantiated to be better than what I'm currently experiencing.

I think you misunderstood me

erin's picture

And perhaps you need to re-read your own first comment. I've been doing this for twelve years and it is not easy. But I do know what I said and what I meant to say.

Hugs,
Erin

= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.

= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.

Nope. I reread my comment

Nope. I reread my comment four times, then yours a half a dozen times as I was writing. I wanted to be sure I didn't miss anything.

What I said was that _if_ you write something controversial, you'll get commensurate commentary. If you want to avoid that commentary, either have the next section ready (to explain that controversy), or post a warning.

Neither of those is telling anyone what TO write. It's a recommendation on how to PRESENT it. There's a vast difference there. You then hopped right up and basically said that it was bad advice, and that I was telling people what to write. If you didn't mean to say that, I'm sorry, but that's exactly how it reads to me.

I, in matter of fact, stated straight out 'It's your story, nobody's going to hold a rock over your head and say "write!"'

Certainly, if authors want to have unrestricted commentary - direct reactions to what they posted - they should just throw it out and see what comes up. If they don't want those comments to happen, then warning people is simply a good idea; if not warning, then making sure they don't stop right after the bad part is also a good idea. If people can get past the bad part, to the next section that either explains that bad part, or at least shows why the bad part is a stepping stone, then they won't be quite as vehement in their reactions to it. Threatening people for having reactions to it isn't productive.

It's why cliffhangers work. "AHHH... We just had something happen, and I want to know what happens next!" "Tune in next week to find out..."


I'll get a life when it's proven and substantiated to be better than what I'm currently experiencing.

Re-read mine again

erin's picture

Nowhere did I say YOU were telling people what to write. What was bad about your advice was you basically were telling someone to worry about whether they were going to offend someone. That is possibly the worst advice to give a writer there is, especially in an edgy topic like TG fiction. If you're going to worry about offending people, don't write at all and save yourself a lot of headache.

Clearer now?

BTW, my criteria of whether to delete a post or not is right at the top of the main page. A friendly place. Friends can disagree, they can even argue but calling someone's writing a piece of crap is not friendly. It's not friendly even if it isn't the author whose story is being commented on whose stuff is being called crap.

Lots of people want to say that I will delete stuff that is not complimentary or posts where people say they don't like something. No where have I ever said that sort of thing. Obviously, I don't delete everything I probably should but I try to err on the side of leaving a comment until an author complains. Some things, like calling stuff crap is just over the line immediately.

Apparently this began because a few people objected to what they thought was a femdom turn of the story. They have a sovereign remedy, stop reading. Commenting on why they have stopped reading a story is 5 times out of 10 going to get that comment removed if I see it. That's almost the textbook definition of destructive criticism and it is very difficult to make such a comment without being an asshat about it.

Hugs,
Erin

= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.

= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.

argh.

Authors HAVE to think about reactions to their stories. I spent _seven years_ in theatre. When you write _anything_ to be read by anyone but yourself, there's an intent to elicit a reaction.

It's the same with all art. That's why there are art shows, with the artist hovering around the corner (that can actually be pretty creepy) listening in on the conversations. (Of course, there ARE the artists that don't care, but those are mostly straight commercial art - rubber stamp art that's sold just to earn a dollar) They're trying to find out if people had the reaction they were aiming for.

Let's boil it down to intent. If you write a horror story, there's an intent to scare the reader. If you write a play like Death of a Salesman, there's an intent to drive home the suicidal banality of life (at least of the main character). I don't know _what_ Samuel Beckett was intending with Happy Days. When I worked that play, the most frequent comment I heard as people were leaving was "What the hell was that?" (paraphrased)

I guess the difference is in the way feedback is presented. With plays, the feedback is immediate, based upon the actions of the audience. (For example, Edward Albee put on a play in the early 90's at UH as a testbed, called "The Lorca Play" (actually, it was just 'Lorca' then), about Federico Garcia Lorca. It bombed, hard. It was then mostly abandoned for years, but there was rumours about trying to start it off-broadway, as he was revising it.) Written stories, on the other hand, tend not to have direct feedback beyond the editing stage. Feedback comes slowly, mostly through sales figures. Nowadays, there can be the more electronic feedback, such as part of what drove Harry Potter.

Back to the first sentence. If an author doesn't think about how their writing will affect the audience, then how will they properly present the section to give the right feeling? That's part of what the various writing styles are for - first person, second person, omniscient, and so forth - they push different buttons and give information differently.

Anyway - you can write a story without thinking about an audience, but it will end up flat (Eye of Argon, anyone?). If you keep the audience in mind, you can end up with a dynamic, moving storyline. Heck, look at the Sweet Valley High series of novels. Those had a very specific, targeted audience, and every book was designed to fit that audience (young teen girls). The very same stories could have been written to go after college age people, but would have read TOTALLY differently. Yes, they are tripe, but they are 20 year, 150+ book, profitable tripe.

When I wrote that very short story, and posted it up for the horror contest, I knew exactly what I was writing. I was writing a story aimed at a very specific audience, expecting them to have a rather visceral reaction. For any other group of people, the result would be a shrug. For this audience? I had to get a few private reactions before I posted it, because I was afraid that it would be _too_ much reaction.

Here is sort of a strange cross between novel writing and playwriting. You have the immediate feedback that an audience would give at a play, but most of the stories are written as serials in 'The Strand' or 'New Yorker' (or in some cases, 'Boy's Life'). "Letters to the Editor" are instant, and take almost no effort at all to write, and arrive before the next installment is presented. The boos of the crowd, flying peanuts, rotten tomatoes... I figure that sometime in the next decade, a more standardised format will evolve for this kind of activity. More and more fiction is being written this way, much like the early days of newspapers. I can't say how it will end up, but it's going to be one heck of a ride.


I'll get a life when it's proven and substantiated to be better than what I'm currently experiencing.

I think that neither of you are quite seeing...

I think neither of you are quite seeing what the other is trying to say.

Erin is saying not to WORRY about offending people - in other words, writing anything will invariably offend someone, so don't bother worrying about it. Bibliophage is saying to either forewarn of edginess, or include the "good part" that follows within the same chapter, if a good part follows the edginess. This do if you wish to avoid having the majority of your comments aimed at the edginess. If you don't care what sort of comments you receive, or, even prefer getting comments about the edgy theme, by all means, don't even warn.

They're BOTH good advice. You SHOULDN'T "worry" about a targets reaction, you should plan for it. Try to target a specific reaction from a specific audience and to hell with any other audience.

Abigail Drew.

Abigail Drew.

*shakes Head*

I enjoyed the story so far and sad to see it gone

So... to the people that chased the story away . IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT DON'T READ IT. if you don't like where the story is going don't read it or write your own. *sigh* there are a lot of kind warm hearted caring people here.
bottom line before you post a comment if your upset or mad or etc think about how you would recive the comment. sometimes you might want to think about your comment overnight before you post it.
nuff said
:(

I play online games *rolls eyes* yes I am one of those people :P
Fav puplished authors atm are Patricia Briggs (Mercy Thompson series),Carrie Vaughn (Kitty series), Kim Harrision.

Sorry to hear about that

I haven't had the chance to read the last episode(which is sad cause I really liked the story) but I am sorry that people were hard on you.
I know that I sometime tend to criticize too harshly on certain points, but an author should never reach a point where the amount of fire they take kill their need to publish their work.

Once again sorry,
Lily.

People vs Deathstalker corps.

I was enjoying your story.

    Stanman
May Your Light Forever Shine
    Stanman
May Your Light Forever Shine

Friendly Comments

erin's picture

I understand you are angry and I'm sorry I did not see the unfortunate comments before you did. I would have removed them.

Hugs,
Erin

= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.

= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.

thanx Erin

Thanx I know you are like on top of it when it comes to site matters. Its one of the main reasons I enjoy this site as opposed to others.

It is regretable if our comments hurt you, PrincessShowy

I like to think of it that when a story triggers strong comments negative or positive it is because the readers have identified with the characters.

If anything I said in my comments hurt you I am sorry.

As to the chapter in question, I was suspicious this was a hazing and as a fairly new program this conversion of certain men into these enhanced women would likely be a bit adhoc, thus the hazing. I was in the Boy Scouts and even there things sometimes out out of hand. It is surprizing what you will do as a group that you would not as an individual.

Do reconsider pulling your story. You have a solid tale in this. One worth continuing... if only for yourself, not just us.

And if it ruffles a few feathers, well it is YOUR tale. Tell it as you will.

Use our comments, pro and con to judge if the story nead tweaking so we understand it.

As a writer we are sometimes too close to the story that we miss things that the reader needs. IE our minds fill in what is missing because we KNOW where it is going but the reader does not.

Sorry again if I have offended.

John in Wauwatosa

John in Wauwatosa

i also really Enjoyed this story

revolution's picture

I even thought that the incident in the last chapter gave the story some character and touched on various aspects of human reaction. it showed that despite the story being set in a futuristic world that emotions and psychological reactions are not changed. It also gave a lot of perspective on how the main character was going to take on the challenges of his life as he went forward.

If you do decide ultimately to continue this story in the future I would love to read it.

Regards and Best Wishes,

Revo