DC Cop pulls gun on Snowball fight

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There's actually debate about this, with people on the cop's side... oh, wait, that's because Fox News cut the kids out of the video and reported them as being "War Protestors"


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFC8mNdxV0c

The kids were having their snowball fight and one of the snowballs went wild toss into the street. It hit this off-duty police officer's Hummer, and he stops his vehicle in traffic, during a snowstorm (not leaving hazard lights on), and pulls his gun on the kids having the snowball fight. He doesn't even identify himself as an officer until other ... See Morepolice arrive. He doesn't give his badge number and the camera-wielding kid runs out to get his license plate before he leaves the scene.

He's on "desk duty" until the department can investigate the video and witness statements.

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Cameras are everywhere

Submitted by on

now-a-days so he is so stupid to pull such a boneheaded play. I so hope he gets royally reamed - with no KY ! :)

Kim

Silly Cop

Submitted by on

Snowball might have scratched his shiney new Hummer.
Moron actually had his big gun drawn too.
Never know when one of those terrorist kids is going to throw a dirty snowball.
Any kid knows you bring mittens to a snowball fight, not a gun!

Trade tools shaped like hand guns

Submitted by on

This may sound bizarre, but my son was just talking to me about buying some Electronic tools to use in his facility maintenance work. After spending over 30 years doing the work, I cautioned him to try to avoid buying an infrared thermometer with a pistol grip if he could. The one I had contained a laser pointing ray. He also wants an explosive gas sniffer, and a non contact volt meter; which I told him to avoid.

Now days anything with a pistol grip could get you shot.

Gwen

Not being whitewashed

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Latest reports include a statement by the D.C. police chief condemning the incident, and a statement by the asst. chief that the detective's badge and gun have been pulled. The detective had 25 years experience and a good reputation prior to this. This incident will likely mark the end of his career and blacken his name forever. In the end, there was no harm done, in spite of how this looks. How many of us would like to be forever marked and judged for one stupid thing we do in the real or cyber world?

Karen J.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34516682/

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,580757,00.html?sPage=fnc...

"Being a girl is wonderful and to torture someone into that would be like the exact opposite of what it's like. I don’t know how anyone could act that way." College Girl - poetheather

"Life is not measured by the breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.”
George Carlin

I'll second that

Submitted by on

My thoughts exactly. They are supposed to have the screening and training, then more recurrent training. He apparently is one who got through the filter undetected if his response to a snowball on his shiney Hummer was to draw his weapon. Most civilians who carry a weapon would not respond in this manner because even with a minimal amount of training we know this is not an appropriate response and are very conscious about only considering it if we are in fear of our lives.
His response was a show of ego and misplaced authority. He swore an oath. He did something that exposed a fundemental character flaw and the lack of good judgement that shows that possibly under a real pressure situation he cannot be trusted to do the appropriate thing. Therefor he should be culled out of the system.

I agree, Ricky

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But all we have is a two minute video clip. And while they say "the camera never lies", neither does it tell the whole story.

I'm not making any kind of case to defend this officer's actions, I don't have the full and complete story. And neither do the rest of us. That is why it is being investigated by the D.C.P.D.'s Internal Affairs Dept. Then a hearing will be held, in all likelihood, to determine what needs to be done. During this process, the officer will have a chance to present his defense. This is a right we all have as U.S. citizens. Or is this a case of Old West-style "justice" - "First we're gonna give him a trial, then we're gonna hang him."

But whatever happens, his name is now blackened, and he'll be lucky to ever get a job anywhere again. As Dr. Phil says, "No matter how flat it is, a pancake has two sides". Is this a personnel problem, is it a training problem? That a man with 25 years experience did something like this suggests that something failed, somewhere. It might be in the officer's life, it might be in the D.C.P.D.'s procedures. We know "what" happened, we need to find out "why".

Let the system do its job, reveal all the facts, and then decide.

KJT

"Being a girl is wonderful and to torture someone into that would be like the exact opposite of what it's like. I don’t know how anyone could act that way." College Girl - poetheather

"Life is not measured by the breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.”
George Carlin

5 minute clip

Submitted by on

The one I linked to is over 5 minutes long, and doesn't have a cut in that time.

I don't think so

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From Associated press:

""Metropolitan Police Chief Cathy Lanier said she watched video clips from the confrontation and has no doubt the off-duty detective pulled his gun after snowballs hit his personal car during Saturday's record snowfall.

"Let me be very clear in stating that I believe the actions of the officer were totally inappropriate!" Lanier said in a statement after the videos made the rounds on YouTube. "In no way should he have handled the situation in this manner."

Lanier said the detective, whom she did not identify, did not deny the accusations. He is on desk duty until an investigation is complete.""

I believe anything that follows will be obfuscation of the facts and spin if it puts this in a different light. If there were a known threat the Chief would have disclosed that, instead she is as shocked and surprised as everyone else, furthermore detective Baylor does not deny it.
...get a rope.

"I believe"

Submitted by on

Well, then, don't need any piddling facts, do we? Heck, even the Ft. Hood shooter is being allowed to present a defense. Like it or not, that's the law. He is allowed to present any evidence that may tend to explain or mitigate his actions. You want to deny that right to the cop?

I went outside once. The graphics weren' that great.

In the video

Submitted by on

The cop with the gun got Bapped in the head with a snowball! Right while he was ranting at the crowd! Funny stuff!
Heck, he was off duty and didn't identify himself. Just a hot head with too many years on the street. He should ride a desk and push papers until he retires.

"Get a Rope!" That's funny!

Mr. Ram

Being a cop is tough.

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I did what a county sheriff does when I was in the Army, so I know a little. You see people at their worst and come to expect that. Who knows what set the Detective off? Maybe he was aware that two more cops were just shot in Washington State, in the same area where the four were recently killed. He'd been on the job for 25 years.

Sure it was time for him to not be on the street any more, a desk job is best for him.

Khadijah Gwen

Telling statement

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How many of us would like to be forever marked and judged for one stupid thing we do in the real or cyber world?

The Fox News video feed cuts out everything we see in the full video that shows the cop in a bad light. And makes it sound like the uniformed officer that showed up pulled his gun on the crowd, as well -- when he didn't. The uniformed officer had his gun by his side while he assessed the situation, then holstered it when he recognized the off-duty officer and saw that the kids (and the vast majority of the crowd were high school or younger) only had snowballs (and video cameras).

No, one stupid thing shouldn't mark you for life. I personally have had that happen. However, this is not one stupid thing.

  1. He had to have seen the snowball fight coming up the street and when he was hit by one, he went nuts.
  2. He stopped his Hummer in the street, blocking traffic.
  3. He exited his vehicle with his gun already drawn and pointing it at the crowd.
  4. He never identified himself as a police officer (until the uniformed officers arrived).
  5. He refused to give his badge number for a complaint (which is required for an officer to do).
  6. It is illegal for anyone -- even a cop -- to even show a handgun in public unless she or he is fearful that her or his life may be in danger (the uniformed officer shown with his gun out did it the right way).
  7. Rather than letting the ON-DUTY officers handle it, he then starts yelling at the crowd.
  8. He threatens to arrest one kid for a snowball that hit him (without really knowing who threw it, he just picked a loudmouth), despite off-duty officers only supposed to arrest in dire situations.
  9. When asked for the spelling of his name for a complaint since he wouldn't give a badge number, he refused. It could be "Bailor" or "Baylor" or "Baelor" or any number of permutations with "-er" or "-ar" or "-ir" or "ur" or even "-yr" instead of "-or" at the end of the name.
  10. He could have very well opened up the department to multiple charges of assault by an officer with a deadly weapon. Remember, folks, assault is not using force, it is the threat of force. As soon as the gun was out, every person in that crowd had a case for Det. Baylor having committed assault on them.

And I'm sure that there are more. This was not "one stupid thing" -- this was many, and I don't believe he should be fired, or have his pension taken away after 25 years of strong service with no incidents on his record. If there are other such occurrences on his record, then yes, by all means, fire him. But if this is a one time thing... no gun anymore, and he rides a desk-pony from now on.

Not sure

Submitted by on

Is your problem with what he did or Fox's coverage? I haven't seen Fox's coverage as I don't have cable. I'm glad you can be such an expert on law, and what happened. Do you know anything about this officer? What kind of day was he having, what kind of year? Is he in financial trouble due to the economy? Does it matter what he was driving, would you be happier if it had been a ten-year-old Chevy? It may not have been his vehicle, as a detective he could have been driving a DCPD unmarked vehicle. You have a single isolated incident, five minutes of video, out of an officer's 25 year career. How about if somebody selected five minutes out of your life, not at random, and posted a video on Utube? I know there are things in my past I wouldn't want to see the light of day, or to be seen by any voyeur on the Internet.

Obviously this is not being swept under the rug, this officer will pay a high price for those five minutes. I'm saying let the system handle it, it doesn't need our rants to insure it is taken care of.

At no time have I endorsed or excused this officer's actions. But I don't know anything about it other than what I've seen on ABC, NBC, CBS, MSNBC, The AP, Fox News website, etc. So I know I'm not in a position to pass judgment on this officer.

Two Pierce County, Washington sheriff's deputies were ambushed and shot when they responded to a family fight. One brother invited the officers to enter the house, whereupon the other brother opened fire on them. One is in serious and the other in critical condition. I haven't seen any matching outrage from all the people who are complaining about the D.C. incident. I suppose the Pierce County incident is not as important, it was just a couple of police officers shot, no big deal.

Spare me the moral outrage, please.

KJT

"Being a girl is wonderful and to torture someone into that would be like the exact opposite of what it's like. I don’t know how anyone could act that way." College Girl - poetheather

"Life is not measured by the breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.”
George Carlin

Lets put this in another light

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Lets just say he was a civilian who was miffed because someone hit his nice big shiney Hummer with a snowball. He had a nice big gun and some ego/authority issues and he was not going to take any s***t from a bunch of rowdy teenagers so he was going to take out his anger on them..scare them? Whatever... if this had been a civilian the end result would have been a patch of red snow next to the Hummer because hotheads are not supposed to pull guns on teenagers, it would have made the evening news and people would be thinking this was justifiable because a-holes should not be allowed to threaten kids with deadly force. The police would be heros in this case. His choice would have cost him his life in this case.
But he is not a civilian, he is a police officer, he does not get special exceptions for a bad day, no do-overs, he is held to a higher standard.

There was a case like this in Illinois recently. Hiway patrol guy Matt Mitchell crosses over meridian and destroys a car in the oncoming traffic, kills two young teenage sisters. Their car was obliterated, it was unrecognizable as a car.
He denied any wrongdoing, no errors in judgement nada, nothing. He was put on paid leave pending an investigation. His department backed him up.
Then the facts begin to emerge:

-the traffic on his side of the freeway was slow and go due to an accident.

-he was going 126 mph with stop and go traffic in the next lane going in his direction. How fast would you think is appropriat under this condition?

-HE WAS ON HIS CELL PHONE WITH HIS GIRLFRIEND. In some states it is illegal to use the phone while driving because it is considered to be more of an imparement than alcohol. I do not think I need to detail all the many reasons what he was doing was endangering many many lives. Stupidity does not take any special training.

...and he denied any wrongdoing. He went to court and denied any wrong doing.
Can't hang em high enough or long enough. There is no amount of pain or suffering severe enough nor enough lifetimes to make his crimes ok. He did not just make a mistake.

Oh, it turns out he had a history of "mistakes".

It is not just a job, you can't have a bad day, there is no room for mistakes. They are not heros, they knew what was involved when they signed up, they were trained for it and they get paid well for it. Heros are defined by their individual acts, acting on behalf of others without regard for their own safety, it is not a job description, not an entitlement and certainly not a given just because you wear the uniform.

Paintball

Submitted by on

Here's a relevant tale from uni (Aberystwyth) about 10 years ago - mercifully UK police generally aren't trigger happy.
Unfortunately I was in a Biology practical at the time so missed all the action - until the local paper came out.

The student in the end room (little more than a glorified cupboard, so had significantly cheaper rent) of my hall happened to be head of the uni's paintballing club. One day, he'd been cleaning out his paintball markers so fired a couple of test shots out of the window at a nearby tree. Unfortunately, the end of the block overlooked Penglais Hill, and a couple of girls walking home early from the local comprehensive school saw the barrel of the paintball marker and (presumably not seeing the CO2 canister or hopper) mistook it for a real gun.

Several minutes later, the armed response unit invade campus and discover he's no longer in his room. At some point in proceedings he's pulled out of an International Politics lecture and whisked off to the police station - en-route a local newspaper photographer captures him mid-stride. Allegedly, once the formalities were over, the student hands out flyers to the paintballing club. In response, the uni order him to store his paintball equipment in a secure lock-up off campus in future.

But the hilarity came the following Thursday, when it made the top story in the Cambrian News. "The unnamed student, weilding a Star Trek style toy gun..." Top marks for both hilarity and consistency - there were several other mentions of the "Star Trek style toy gun" in the article, always using that exact phrase.

Funny...I always thought Phasers were about the same size as a DECT phone or a large remote control...certainly not as big as a rifle with a hopper poking out of one end and a CO2 canister poking out of another...

-oOo-

Then again, in a West Wales town with a permanent population of 11,000 and a student population of over 6,000, it doesn't take much to get the CN excited. Another front page scoop was when a large (12-15' tall) marine buoy managed to slip its anchor in Milford Haven (a few dozen miles South) and ended up on the beach at Aberystwyth, where it formed a temporary tourist student attraction (wintertime - I doubt there'd be many tourists about!). And on another memorable occasion, a local bus driver took a wrong turn on campus and tried to squeeze his 14ft tall double decker under a building bridging the road 11ft up. Mercifully there was no-one on the top deck as the roof was sliced off - and inevitably the campus in-joke was "So that's how Crossville make their open-top buses!"

 
 
--Ben

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As the right side of the brain controls the left side of the body, then only left-handers are in their right mind!

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