It's and its...

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No offense, but I do wonder if there is a change in language taking place.
I learned at school that the moment you can say "it is" you can abbreviate it to "it's".
In almost all the stories I have read so far, that rule is not applied - have the rules changed?!?

There are some who fuss about

There are some who fuss about every single word in a story and have to have everything perfect before they consider gracing us with their presence, but for most of us please try to give the benefit of the doubt.Most of us who post here try our hardest to catch our errors. There are a couple who slap together stories quickly and all errors get ignored, but the vast majority of us try our hardest to not make mistakes but even the most sophisticated grammar check software can't catch them all.

We try. We aren't perfect. Even some of the top, highly respected, highly publicized authors here make simple mistakes that even their editors catch. It happens to all.

I'm told STFU more times in a day than most people get told in a lifetime

It"s your eyesight?

As we get older our eyesight declines. So could it be possible that you"re just not seeing those really small apostrophes correctly :)

We the willing, led by the unsure. Have been doing so much with so little for so long,
We are now qualified to do anything with nothing.

No, really...

… I am REALLY wondering whether this is a change in language - something like the use of abbreviation deriving from SMS and such merging into the everyday language.
I am aware that writers put a lot of effort into their stories and I appreciate the effort... - sorry if that looked like lecturing!

Tabby

actually its simple

It's is a contraction of, "it is"... "It's going to be a beautiful day today."
Its is possessive of it, "My car needs to have its oil changed."

(Notice how I intentionally misused it in the title?)

We the willing, led by the unsure. Have been doing so much with so little for so long,
We are now qualified to do anything with nothing.

I am going to argue with you for fun.

There are (at least) two uses for the apostrophe in English.
1. To indicate the possessive (as in "Thera's post", meaning a post owned or made by Thera)
2. To indicate missing letters, abbreviation (as in "Thos' Cook", an abbreviation for Thomas Cook").

When I was in school the use of the contraction "It's" for "It is" was marked as a stylistic error but not a grammatical error because of the potential conflict with the possessive use.

Nowadays it seems the rules for style have changed (reversed) but not the grammar.

But seriously, who cares? Most dead tree publications have multiple professional editors that parse and correct the text to that publications style. Even then some 'mistakes' pass by multiple editors.

As a proofreader

Self-educated granted, I wouldn't mark either its or it's incorrect either for style or usage, that is unless they were misused. My pet peeves if I have them are to, too, two, there, their, they're also rite, right, write, and wright. But the ones I see most often misused seems to be there and their...

I think you are missing one other thing or two

AuPreviner's picture

One of my big problems is the autosuggest feature. It helps me write faster. I see the word pop up and my mind accepts it without evaluating it. But, at the same time, it also increases the amount of errors I make. I can know, for example, the difference between compliment and complement, but the autosuggest doesn't. And, in the moment, I don't care.

Since my concentration is on writing as the spirit moves me, I rarely want to correct the errors I make as I write them saying to myself that I will correct it later. So, many of those errors get embedded into my prose even after I carefully proofread my text.

That is crucial to me as a writer. I am writing a story right now which has been coming in waves. I stop waiting for inspiration and then it comes out of me like a flood. If I spent time correcting my story, I would lose my focus. As it is, the need to write outweighs my OCD grammar nerd's desire to do it right. I hope it stays that way.

The other thing to keep in mind, especially for a few of your grammar freaks who have commented to me, is that when you are writing a bunch of stories in a short season, your goal is to let your muse flow at all costs. Because of that, I can find a story like Front Paige News has lots of errors when I publish it while the first story of the five I published in a short time has very few errors in it The reason is that the first story had been finished weeks earlier and Front Paige News came hot off the press within a day of it being finished.

So, after I finish my work, I polish it as best I can. I go back over it again and again and make corrections. Then, what is worse, I will make further errors in correcting a run on sentence, or a sentence fragment, or some other change I make.

Lastly, there is the trick my mind plays. I will read something and think I included a word when I haven't.

For, example, I just edited 'Why did you say No?' I found a glaring error in which I intended to typed 'in a moment' and had written instead 'in moment.'

Contextually, my readers could follow what I was saying. But, in reality, that error had been there for almost nine months before I caught it because my mind was playing tricks with me.

For nine months, my mind filled in the blank and turned a 'in moment' into 'in a moment.'

This is another thing I do to correct mistakes. I will reread one of my stories after some time has past because that sense of anticipating what I thought I was saying is gone and I can finally catch the error.


"Love is like linens; after changed the sweeter." – John Fletcher (1579–1625)

Oh Yeah!

I can hate that autocomplete function. I love my wordprocessor until it spits out gobbledegook! Which is why writing is now and always has been a collaborative effort. Because if I don't see a missed usage 'cause it's spelled correctly it will stay. Sometimes it will stay through several iterations of a story. I was writing something, and for some reason I put in martial when I intended to put in marshal. It took me a dedicated search for the former to get all the instances changed! So I do understand that there are people who treat posting here more like a forum post rather than a professional writing debut.

And then there are those moments when

AuPreviner's picture

And then there are those moments I am writing at one in the morning because I have had an inspiration I just had to get written down asap.

The writing process is a process. And those who think we are lazy for not sticking to the rigors of precise grammar when we aren't getting paid for it, don't understand the process is creative, not collaborative.

Pay me, and I will find a proof reader to excise all my miserable faux pas. Otherwise, I am doing it because I find some sort of enjoyment being creative which is my form of payment.

If the only time I hear from a reader is to correct my occasional slips of grammar which irritates them, then I am getting robbed of my payment.

I treasure all of my positive comments. Those are the things that make me want to write better, more concisely, and more clearly.

My most treasured comment lately was when StacyInLove wrote a lovely comment on my Tant Que C'est Toi story being some of my best work. It let me know how my writing has improved and where. It has inspired me to write more and improve my writing.

It is easy to tell someone that they have fallen on their face. Why be told what gravity is when you are tasting dirt?

It is far better and kinder to tell someone where they get it right so they look up, not down into the ground where they have fallen.


"Love is like linens; after changed the sweeter." – John Fletcher (1579–1625)

its moment

mountaindrake's picture

I grew up on cross word puzzles and word games I actually enjoy strange word configurations spoonerisms and other such word usages.So do not have hang ups about proper grammar and punctuation. Have a good day and enjoy life,

Have a good day and enjoy life.

Re: And then there are those moments when

AuP, if you want to have your stories/pieces proofread before you post them, send me a PM.

At that point, I'll give you my email and we can start the process.

I've said this before, I am quite willing to edit and proofread people's stories. I do it because I like to help others. I am also willing to offer polite and constructive criticism on how to improve those same pieces, for the same reason.

some people

Some people write using contractions, some don't some worry about correct usage, some seem to use dragon speaking or some other voice to text program. I'm not always a fan of the contraction, but it's common to use various sorts in every day life so, unless I see something blatant I don't sweat it either.

Re: some people

You are absolutely correct in what you say in the first two clauses of your first sentence, Missy.

Precise grammatical usage states that one should not use contractions except for identifying something as belonging to someone. As you said in your second sentence, it has become common usage, and as such, is not frowned upon like it was several decades ago.

I can be a bit OCD about some things, and one of those is how my writing looks on a page. *bashful grin* I am not sure where it started, but somewhere back in my childhood, I think I developed a pattern of presenting fairly uniform paragraphs, most specifically, ending a paragraph shortly before the right hand side of the page. To me, having just a few words on another line looks wrong. I know I am odd.

As for the voice to text programs, yes, I can see that being a problem because it is far too easy for it to misinterpret what is being said. Ones such as to, too, two, their, there, they're, right, rite, write, and wright are very easy to mix up, lose and loose are a couple more that I see quite a bit. Times like this are when a proofreader/editor can catch mistakes and fix them before the story gets posted/published.

I'll be honest

I try not to use lose and loose. I'm dyslexic as I noted elsewhere. Those two are so close in meaning that I can't figure out which one to use in which situation. The same way I will try to say pick rather than chose. This is because if there are four words in the whole language that I'm uncertain of the usage of it lose or loose, and chose or choose. Therefore I actually do my best to avoid them!

Re: I'll be honest

Actually, lose and loose have very different meanings. The sound and spelling are close, which can create confusion.

lose: 1. be deprived of or cease to have or retain (something)
2. become unable to find (something or someone)

loose: 1. not firmly or tightly fixed in place; detached or able to be detached.
2. (of a garment) not fitting tightly or closely

I am actually surprised when people mix these two up, as the meanings are so different.

As for chose and choose, that's easy. Chose is past tense, as in "I chose to wear a dress to the dinner last night.", whereas choose is present tense, as in "I choose my friends by seeing which ones stand by me in my times of trouble."

There are other ways that chose or choose can be used, those are just simple examples.

Lose and Loose...

...can be opposites. I've seen a surprising number of stories in which turning someone or something loose is a (or even the) winning move, so that when the word appears the reader doesn't know whether he's just seen an escape or a defeat.

But I've always felt that it isn't a matter of the author not knowing which word to use; I think it's usually a misspelling that a spellchecker can't correct. "Lose", after all, looks as though it ought to be pronounced "lohss"; it's one of a handful (or so) of words that can look wrong when you put it on a page.

Eric

Which is part of my problem

With the word. It does not sound like it looks. I read phonetically as much as possible, but as I noted when discussing these words, I hesitate to use them I let things go rather than turn them loose when I write. Things that go missing do so as well. If it costs me a few words more to be clear I do my best. When I comment or when I blog I don't have the support of a team to help me make sure I used the correct word for context.

English language does change BUT!

BarbieLee's picture

In school the big no no was using ain't instead of 'is not'. If one used ain't in any paper turned in for a grade expect a big red check mark and a grade reduction. Which meant my Ds turned into Fs. Oh well. I have had the spell checkers on this site to comment on my 'it's' in my stories. I love the people who help with my stories and give me corrections. However my colloquialisms and yu'alls are in my stories as that is the way a lot of us poor uneducated people speak. Someone once asked me, "Just how far south do you call home?" Well I can honestly say I ain't as fur so outh as sums of tham backwuds, eggnurent people.

Keep in mind the English language is the most screwed up language in the world. For every rule there is a contradiction. And I am proud to say I have been destroying the King's Language longer and better than anyone I know. One English teacher told me, "I can't edit your work. It's so bad it confuses me and I get to thinking you're right and I'm wrong." I didn't ask but she must have grew up in the same part of the world I did and all her ed u ca shun warped her mind until she gots to thinking like all them fur nurs.

"On average, we add approximately 1,000 new entries to Oxford Dictionaries Online every year"

What can I say? I'm ahead of the curve and event you alley ever one wills lurns tos talks right.
Have fun with life, it's too short to take seriously
always,
Barb

Oklahoma born and raised cowgirl

Simple as that.

I think it's just that most authors don't use any spellchecking method.
Often uploading raw drafts.

I use Grammarly (nope, not sponsored to say this) and I am pretty satisfied. Even only using the free version.
Going through a story with a dedicated spell and grammar checker takes time and I feel not many writers here do it.
It's a shame, but I can't force anyone to do it.

Several of the most prominent

Several of the most prominent writers on here use it and s till have errors in their grammar. It isn't without its glaring holes.

I think I'll not bother posting anymore. It's gotten to the point that unless you run it by a select few that what you post will get critiqued for being imperfect.

I'm told STFU more times in a day than most people get told in a lifetime

Oh please don't

You're valid here, plenty of people like your content. I've seen lots of people that talk about your stuff. You're not a bad writer, and so what if you make mistakes? Even the greatest authors of our time and the past made tons of them. You are not less than because of your mistakes. Mistakes help you grow, hang in there okay? But you don't have to if this is how you really feel. If people are abusing you then yeah you should leave. I don't want to encourage you to stay if people are hurting you. I just don't want you to feel less than okay?

I know who I am, I am me, and I like me ^^
Transgender, Gamer, Little, Princess, Therian and proud :D

No one

No one expects the work here to be perfect. Or at least I don't I read commercial fiction. Or at least I used to read commercial fiction. You know the stuff on a bookstore shelf? I have never read any of it that didn't have stuff slip by their proofreaders. Therefore I know I don't expect perfection out of authors who are doing this as I said as a labor of love. However, it behooves anyone with commercial ambitions to consult a proofreader. I think the most professional grade stuff I've read here is Penny Lane and Julia Phillips' SEE/JoB story-universe. Seriously those two have to have some really picky readers and pay attention to them. Their work is as good as any commercial fiction I've ever read, and it is here free. If I were working and able and there were dead tree versions of their work, I would buy them.

Efindumb,

PLEASE don't stop writing and posting stories here just because some folks want to piss in other people's corn flakes.

If they're going to be that nit picky about spelling and grammar, then they can find other stories to read rather than nag at a writer.

Granted, I'm a bit picky about my own grammar, spelling, etc., but I try not to come down on others hard about small stuff like that. I've also posted in various blogs that I would be quite willing to help others with editing and proofing of their stories, I don't have to do that.

Remember, folks, this is a mostly FREE site to read stories, and for those who like to write, to post their pieces.

I agree

Don't let the critics get to you. Pretend you're Mark Twain. He believed in creative spelling... And take heart, those who note spelling and grammar? For the most part, they are telling you they like your work well enough to read it and would like to see it improved. So pay attention to what they said, try to learn to see what they pointed out and remove such from your next posted piece. No one is perfect, and no one expect perfection.

But

Why does that matter? Grammar and spell check are such minor things. Easily fixed. No reason to not read a story just because of that. Heck even when I was a bitch about this stuff, I still read the content. IMO as long as the writing is good, the flow is readable it's fine for me. Though sometimes I just don't like reading the content by certain authors. Not saying anything against them, just they don't write things that interest me. Or in a way I find entertaining. Different tastes for everyone you know.

I know who I am, I am me, and I like me ^^
Transgender, Gamer, Little, Princess, Therian and proud :D

Why? Because...

...it can pull the reader out of the story. A pause to think "that's not right" can be disruptive to whatever the author is trying to accomplish, especially when there's an intention to create or sustain a mood or an emotional reaction. Not always, but IMO much more often than never.

You did add "when the flow is readable". But a story with lots of casual errors can still be readable; it's just a lot less effective in making its points since the reader is distracted.

I'll acknowledge that because I'm a proofreader, I'm more susceptible to this than most readers. There are a couple of authors here that I just can't get through without an internal explosion, so I don't read them, even when the teaser and categories make them look interesting.

But I believe the fact remains that an author is providing a story here because he or she wants people to read and enjoy it. Doing so with bad grammar and spelling makes his or her task more difficult.

Eric

reading flow

English is not my first language. I read it by the spelling not phonetically.
So for me the reading flow is much easier and more often interrupted by spelling and grammar errors.
In the same way I have real difficulties when an author writes out a dialect phonetically. For my imagination it would be sufficient to be told that someone is speaking a dialect and then reading the text in "normal English" ;-)

Martina

its

mountaindrake's picture

those who think spelling and grammar are that important need to offer a 24 hour service free of charge for those things. As in you do the check and return the manuscript within 24 hours of when the writer sends it to you or just shut your mouths. Have a good day and enjoy life.

Have a good day and enjoy life.

Check and return

Who here can afford that sort of service? Seriously, go price it at a place like Upwork and see what twenty four hour turn around costs you. I know what I would charge for it and no one here seems to be doing this at a level to demand that level of service. That said, there are people here who are doing proofreading, some like myself would like it to be our full time gig. For that to be true for me, I would have to earn around $1500 a month at it. Now at the rate I read and return work, I could do that if people were willing to pay $ .01 per word read. But so far no one thinks their work is worth that or they feel that they are on too tight of a budget. I get the second. A lot of the work here is a labor of love for both the writer and proof reader. I have been out of work for nearly a year, I cannot afford to not earn money. So I cannot volunteer more than 50,000 words a month to the hatbox. That is and will be my contribution to the site as long as I can maintain internet access. Or until I give up....

Getting Things Right

Why 24 hours? Perhaps we should use faster-than-light technology and send them back an hour before we receive them.

Getting things right -- even after the stories have been posted, so that other people don't endure the same difficulties as the readers who are bothered -- is usually the concern here, not timing. (If we're talking about serial chapters that are expected on a particular day, that may be a little different.)

I surely hope you don't use that same logic when, say, you go to a restaurant. Any time you got a meal that had something in it you didn't like, even though you hadn't paid for it yet, you'd be obligated to either stay silent about it or, if you wanted to complain, go into the kitchen and provide a perfect meal for everyone in the establishment, free of charge, whether you knew how to cook or not.

For me, spelling and grammar are that important, and editing and proofreading (nonfiction) was my RL job. So I usually send a PM to the author if an error was significant enough to disrupt my reading of the story. Some authors thank me and correct it; some authors thank me and hopefully don't make that error again in future chapters; some authors tell me not to bother them with that sort of thing; a few authors have put me on their ignore list. (And one or two have pointed it out when I'm wrong, and I apologize to them.)

As for proofing or editing before a story is posted, the fact of the matter is that there ARE people here who proof stories for free, if they're asked, RL doesn't get in the way and the stories are ones they'd be interested in reading. Authors here who credit and thank their editor, proofer or beta reader in their submissions have presumably found such people. (Others have as well, I think, but prefer to keep that information private.). AFAIK they aren't being paid for their work. If the story is later offered for sale, the author may give them a share of the revenue.

Not every author wants to work that way, and every editor is different. I'm not saying that all stories need that kind of attention whether the author likes it or not. It needs to be pointed out that we're only discussing a minority of stories and authors here. Most of the folks here do care about grammar and spelling, and proof their stories well enough to make them read clearly.

What I'm saying is that the assumptions and logic in your comment are faulty in nearly every detail. People aren't disqualified from thinking something is important if they can't do better themselves. Time is not the key element here, accuracy is. Things don't have to be changed before online publication if that's not logistically realistic, or if the author isn't comfortable doing that. And it's simply not true that there's no one here who'll proofread for free.

Eric

I can't imagine

Working without a proofreader. Well actually I've done so for many years and can say with certainty, that any time I used the services of a proofreader my writing improved by vast amounts. My cousin was an teacher with a doctorate in English. She taught me a lot about writing. I won't say she taught me everything, and I've learned from others since, not the least of whom was Stephan King if only through his excellent book on writing. I still learn from anyone who will take the time to read what I write. Why we point out errors? I'm not like Eric, though I'd love to get into the profession of proofreading. I can promise this, the idea of 24 hour turnaround would have a high surcharge if you were to buy it from a place where such service were sold. I looked into working through a freelance agency, they won't even look at me because I don't have a doctoral degree.
To me that makes no sense. Unless I'm reading to be sure that the technical details of a technical paper are correct then all I would be reading for would be for English usage. I'm confident that I'm good enough to do that!

hermit

mountaindrake's picture

At least it was not a dead parrot. Ala Monty Python. Have a good day and enjoy life.

Have a good day and enjoy life.

It's and Its..

I hear what you say and I know that I am not perfect. (And I know I don't write nearly enough. I blame that on the real world.) However I have to say that there are some authors on BCTS whose work I do not read. Which I can not read. I have tried but I just can not get through to the story behind the words. I do try, or I am trying. (One of those is true!)

Some semblance of adherance to the rules of grammar and stucture appears to be necessary to me for comprehension and enjoyment. Perhaps that is my problem and not anyone else's. In fact I would probably not notice a misplaced its or it's. There are far worse trangressions which stop me from reading further.

Perhaps we should all lighten up? I don't know, whaddyafink?

AM

Seriously

This thread started as a serious question, and perhaps the language is changing. I’m copacetic with that.

For example, “trans” and “cis” have some recent new usage, and arguably there are some new and acceptable uses of punctuation. :)

Now excuse me please as I haven’t had my morning covfefe.

LOL

waif's picture

Tabby, I have to believe that you meant this as a joke.

With all the grammatical errors I see on a daily basis you picked up on that one???

The English language is being routinely bastardized by people all over the world because it is a bastard language. Grammar, punctuation, phonology and syntax have evolved differently in every region in the world.

When you compare it to the slaughter of the language that you see on twitter, facebook, email, etc. and look at it objectively, in the overall language-scape the issue trivial.

I mean it's very minor when you think of its morphology....really it is.

waif

Be kind to those who are unkind, tolerant toward those who treat you with intolerance, loving to those who withhold their love, and always smile through the pains of life.