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In the last five or six years, I've been spending all of my free time (time not at work) wearing 100% women's clothes. Even at work, only my outer wear is men's clothing and only then because I'm a truck driver and my company issues a uniform; otherwise I'd be in women's jeans and polo shirt. Even at work, I wear a bra with breast forms as well as all other women's underwear, including my socks. Even my shoes are women's.
This includes what I wear to church, though I do admit that my church clothes are sufficiently butch that only the most keen eyed observer would notice that they are really women's. Shirt buttons and pants fly on distaff side. Again, with bra, breast forms, cami, etc. underneath. Basically I dress in women's clothes 24/7, and pass as an ordinary male at work and church. It should be noted here, that I consider myself transgendered, but not transsexual. (I'm a feminine male; feminine in gender, male in body.) I've been married to the same woman for 46 year and we have a good relationship, and that I'm 100% heterosexual, according to my male plumbing. I've never considered SRS and frankly, in relation to my anatomy, the very idea gives me the willies.
Whenever I go shopping, I make sure to be as girly-girl as I can. Minimal make up and jewelry and recently, I've taken to wearing skirts and hose. I wrote about such shopping trip in this blog where my oldest daughter went with me.
Now for the moral dilemma. In the past, I kept my outings short and kind of kept a mental note as to where the nearest "family restroom" was. I prefer to use the "family restroom" even when passing as a male. I'm just not that comfortable in the men's room. As I get more and more comfortable moving in the women's world, I've pushed the boundaries as where I allow myself to go. Years ago, I wouldn't try on, unless I could sneak the things into the men's dressing room. However, since most women's dressing rooms have been converted to real rooms with full height walls and regular doors with locks, I've decided that there's no sense buying without trying on and risking the need to exchange what I've bought.
In being comfortable with myself as a feminine person, I find that people in general, seem to be comfortable in treating me the same way. This, of course, boosts my confidence and encourages me to go out more, stay out longer and go more places. Now, that creates a problem.
Being out longer and going to more places means that when nature calls, I may not always be someplace where a family restroom is in striking distance. This has happened twice in the last two outings. As a result, the first time (I wasn't about to go into the men's room in a skirt with make up on), I found myself desperate enough to step into the women's room. I steeled myself not to show any apprehension and found myself in the proverbial line for the stalls. In front of me was a young mother with two preteen girls. Each girl took a stall as they became available and when the first one come out the mother turned to me and said, as nice as you please, "You can go ahead. I'm just waiting for my daughter."
That's how I found myself in the stall in a busy women's room relieving myself. For those who may have the question in their mind… no, neither the idea, nor the practice of using the women's room is erotic to me in anyway.
The next time, I went into what at first I thought was an empty restroom and found stalls to the left and right of a short hallway. As I started to turn to the right, I heard sounds in the first stall, so I turned around and took the furthermost stall on the left. As I was in there, a woman came and took the stall next to me. Again, I found myself relieving my bladder in a busy women's restroom.
So, here's the moral question: As fully functional, 100% heterosexual (according to my plumbing) male, though feminine in nature (gender), is it moral, or "right" for me to use the women's restroom. Apparently, given the first instance where I had to interact with genetic women, I pass well enough not cause anyone any concern.
I might add that I live Oregon, where the public accommodation statutes require businesses to allow me to use the facilities that I'm dressed and presenting for.
So opinions please.
Comments
like you said....
There's nothing erotic about it, act like it's no big deal and it shouldn't be. Hugs Talia
Depends
You did not make it clear if you are trying to pass as a female or not, you've always emphasized that you are NOT female. If you are still kinda passable as a guy then you present as a feminine male so use the men's room. That said I've found there is an understanding that transsexuals are allowed to use the ladies and women have given transwomen of dubious presentation the benefit of the doubt and have not complained about it.
I was in a mall and I saw a person pretty much in your situation, a feminine male whom I could not make up my mind about until I saw him go into the men's room. I have a coworker who does not crossdress per se ( no breast forms ) but has a very feminine air and manner about him (helped by very gentle, nearly feminine speech and body movement and long hair and the fact he uses a wire hair band to keep his hair back) but is married and has children and he of course uses the men's room.
However if you are firmly trying to pass as female then as a courtesy use the women's room. That is the general rule of thumb for crossdressers. However, it has been commented before that the latch on stalls have been known to be faulty and the opening and closing of neighboring stalls can flex the stall frame, leading to the door of the stall you are in to open by itself without your consent. Also, women do glance through the slots in the door to check whether a stall is in use or not in restrooms where the default is for stall doors to always look closed (some Costcos are like that.)
In any case since you identify as male then it comes down to being afraid of the hostility of other men to who you are and it becomes a safety issue.
Passing indeed.
Yes indeed, I'm attempting to pass as a woman. Despite the fact I'm heterosexual according to my plumbing, my self identity is definitely feminine. (I use male or female to denote sex and masculine and feminine do denote gender.) I would live full-time in feminine expression if it weren't for the fact I have to work and all my ID for getting a job has M, as in male, on it. Well that and church, where my wife and daughter attend would present a problem if I didn't butch it up there. Though the Pastor knows of my trans status. He's not quite sure just what to do with it.
In the restroom, even at home and when out butch and use the man's restroom I sit to pee and indeed wipe. It just feels right.
In reaching the point of trying on what I buy, I took a spell where I didn't care if I passed or not. I just decided that if a place objected to my trying on women's clothes, I'd apologize, leave and take my business elsewhere. To my surprise, no stores seemed to have a problem with me in the fitting rooms, even the ones that only had a curtain to close off the rooms. Though, I felt a little uncomfortable, I'm sure because of the increased chance of being outed. Strangely enough, just my attitude that I belonged there seemed to give me the edge that said I was a woman... OK, maybe an ugly woman, but a woman.
Hugs
Patricia
Happiness is being all dressed up and HAVING some place to go.
Semper in femineo gerunt
How are you presenting.
Is what determines the bathroom you should use. Women's bathrooms are by design more private so unless you are being vary out there obvious if you are presenting as a women use the girls room.
I remember my first time, I could hold my water but my daughter could not. I a was full time girl at the time and had no problems except my nerves.
huggles
Michele
With those with open eyes the world reads like a book
As long as you don't out yourself
in the woman's bathroom it is no big deal. I remember reading a story where a T-girl still peed standing up, which is incredibly stupid. I have had the surgery, but long before then I was full time female, and using the appropriate bathroom.
Sit down, wipe and be sure to
Sit down, wipe and be sure to flush. And don't stare.
BTW.
"I've never considered SRS and frankly, in relation to my anatomy, the very idea gives me the willies."
SRS will leave you willieless.
Providing you conduct
yourself with decorum, use whichever feels more appropriate. I would avoid hanging round in the ladies to primp etc, just get in and out then you reduce the risk of being outted or accused of inappropriate behaviour.
I recall the first week I transitioned, I was attending a folk festival and was approached by a little girl who asked me to take her to the toilet. I did so but stood at the doorway to the cubicle and didn't actually enter it. She'd have been about the age of my own daughter so perhaps I looked 'mumsie'.
Angharad
Double agreement
Since you identify as male then you should not be there. In/Out and gone is the best way to go.
BTW there are also a lot of masculine looking women out there who easily pass as guys but I don't think they bother going into the men's room since they know they are women also.
That is not to say that such women have not been stopped by security to give ID as to their gender status now and again.
It's All About The Words
In my experience, others in your situation use more M2F identifying words. You might want to think about other ways to define yourself, especially if your present definition, emphasizing your 'maleness', causes doubts about the morality or social correctness of your public behavior. You ARE what is in your brain and mind, everybody is. Just because sex organs usually are with a brain of the same gender does not mean those sex organs define what you are. If a cis-man loses his sex organs, he is still a man; the same with a cis womyn. Most transsexuals do not get GRS because of money, family, health or other reasons; they are still transsexual. Many who choose to stay as you are now, identify as non-op transsexuals.
Sex organs also don't define your sexuality, because that is determined in your brain, too. It's a bit of a grey area to define either homo or het sexuality in transgendered people. I think it is more clear to state which gender you are sexually attracted to than to figure if your sex or gender is the same or opposite that of your loved one, especially as you could be thought of as having aspects of both sex. I think it would be better to say one is gynophilic or androphilic, loving wimyn or loving men. Some would say that since you are a gynophilic transgender womyn that you are a trans-lesbian, although that term might make you uncomfortable.
You might feel better if you can convince yourself that you are a womyn, because you have a womyn's or a feminine brain. I think most TSs feel better after they have worked this out. You could use a therapist or councilor to help you resolve your thinking. 'Coming Out' to yourself as a womyn doesn't mean you have to hate your genitals or desire GRS. It certainly does not have anything to do with which gender you love.
Hugs and Bright Blessings,
Renee
Modify the question.
Is it ok for a lesbian to use the ladies room?