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SAN ANTONIO -- A local college student says she was fired from her job for refusing to allow a transgender woman into the women's dressing room. Now she's speaking out, saying her religion conflicts with the store's transgender policy.
Liberty Counsel, a religious advocacy group, is representing 27-year-old Natalie Johnson after she was fired over the Nov. 30 confrontation. Johnson said she was never aware of Macy's transgender policy, but now that she is, she doesn't agree with it.
http://www.kens5.com/home/Woman-fired-for-not-allowing-trans...
Here's another video, from CNN:
http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/living/2011/12/09/macys-emp...
Comments
I'm glad to see a positive
I'm glad to see a positive story come out of a smaller news station. Macy's stuck to their policy. They might do a better job making sure line staff know about it, but they stood by it. The article seemed quite well done as well. I didn't like that they ended the segment on the girls beliefs, but the article was quite positive.
Descrimination
When I first came out I had two incidents; one in a restroom and the other in a food court. I was in the right in both cases, and in one, the attacker was escorted from the area by security.
These days when using a women's restroom at the mall or a store, I take extra effort to dress well, and to get in, do my business and get out. It does not include looking guiltily around to see if someone has rumbled me.
If I am going to do a lot to my make up, I try to do it in the car or at home before I go out. If you must do makeup work in the bathroom of a store, keep focused on yourself, get the job done, don't make yourself look like a raccoon, and get the hell out. It is after all what other women do.
Gwendolyn
Yep, she's a bigot.
She's very amusing, isn't she? I don't understand how sticking her nose in someone else's business is her religious duty. Seems to me it's just another case of someone being a bigot and attempting to use religion to justify it. I'm glad Macy's fired her. Her personal beliefs or opinions have no place in the store.
Personal beliefs have no place in the store (workplace)
Exactly. They didn't hire her to represent her religion. They hired her to do the job, and follow store policy on doing that. "My religion doesn't agree with that" is a copout to justify being a bigot. And I'm glad Macy's fired her for it. They know we have money to spend too and it's just as good as anyone else's, and letting us use the change room doesn't hurt anyone else.
This would be no different than if she'd been white and was fired for berating and chasing out black customers, and fell back on "My (white supremacist) Church doesn't agree with the store's policy of treating those dark skinned savages as people! So firing me goes against my religious beliefs and freedoms!" That wouldn't fly. I'm glad this didn't either.
Good for Macy's.
Lisa
Irony
Yeah, I thought it was highly ironic coming from a black woman.
Karen J.
* * *
I contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle. - Winston Churchill
"Life is not measured by the breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.”
George Carlin
Religious story
God was playing golf with Jeremy Irons and Tiger Woods but hadn't brought His clubs. He teed off with one of Jeremy's woods and then used a couple of Tiger's irons to get closer, landing on the green in 3 on a par 5. "Whose putter can I use here?" asked the Lord God, looking at a 26 foot putt.
"I've won more golf games," said Tiger, "use mine."
"God, you're tall," said Jeremy. "I'm taller than Tiger, use mine, it'll be a better fit."
God used Jeremy's putter to sink the ball in one putt for a birdie.
Walking away from the hole, Tiger asked, "I don't understand, God. Jeremy is taller than me by only about an inch and my putter is actually longer than his. Why didn't Thou use mine?"
God looked Tiger in the eye and said, "Because I know where it's been."
--------------
That story has about as much to do with religion as the Macy's clerk's opinion in this case.
Hugs,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
That story gave me a good
That story gave me a good belly-type laugh though. I loved it.
as much to do with religion as Macy's clerk's opinion
Right, Erin. It was about her prejudice that the transgendered customer was "a man in a dress and makeup". She just used religion as a copout later when she got in trouble, trotting out the religion card to say SHE was the oppressed one, not the customer she was a jerk to.
The fact that the article above quotes her as saying this shows it: "I personally don't believe in transgenders," Johnson said. "These are just people that are mentally confused." [translation: I'll always consider them to be confused men, even when they get the pee-pee removed...]
It also refutes the earlier statement: "Any man who is in the process of becoming a woman, well guess what? You are still a man," Johnson said. [implying she'd accept them as women after SRS?]
She doesn't know what's in their panties, much less their mind and heart. You can't always tell just by looking either. Some pre-ops are gorgeous, and some post-ops look, well, like me... *sigh* And all deserve respect. But too many, like this (former) clerk, think TG women are just doing it to peep at women in the changing room or flash the contents of their own knickers or something.
So again, I say good for Macy's. Especially for a Texas branch of the store. Maybe they (Macy's in general) learned something from last year.
Lisa
Golf
God was out on the Heavenly golf course one day, just starting out with Moses, Jesus, and Mohammed in a friendly game. The links were pretty crowded, of course, because it was (as always) a perfect day for golf, so there were several groups waiting to tee off.
Moses took the first drive, and it was almost perfect, with a slight hook that took it past the tree hazard, headed (he thought prophetically) straight for the green. In short order, Jesus and Mohammed had made very similar drives and started walking toward the green.
God teed up and addressed the ball, then took his shot and it went wild, with a terrible slice that veered off so badly that God called out ‘Fore!’ to warn the players walking back in on the adjacent return hole.
As the ball flew, though, an eagle dropped from the sky, screaming defiance, and caught the ball in its talons, instantly heading back toward the green with the ball. Just then, a dragon burst flying out from the woods, caught the eagle in its mouth, and started winging its way toward the nearest rough. Miraculously, though, a lightning bolt crashed down from the cloudless sky and stunned the dragon, which dropped the eagle from its mouth, allowing the eagle to swiftly turn back toward the green, God's ball still firmly grasped in its talons. At this point a meteor streaked through the air and knocked the ball out of the eagle's claw, from whence it flew unerringly down toward the pin, bounced twice, once off a rock left carelessly on the green, rolled, and then dropped into the hole for a hole in one.
God was admiring the shot when He felt a tap on His shoulder. It was Mother Teresa, one of the group waiting to tee off behind God's party.
She said, ‘Excuse me, God, but if you're going to be farting around, would you mind if we played through?’
Cheers,
Puddin'
A tender heart is an asset to an editor: it helps us be ruthless in a tactful way.
--- The Chicago Manual of Style
-
Cheers,
Puddin'
A tender heart is an asset to an editor: it helps us be ruthless in a tactful way.
--- The Chicago Manual of Style
Thuggee
That class of murderers and thieves known as the Thugs were religiously-motivated, and all their killings were carried out in a ritually-prescribed manner. Would this woman's definition of "religious freedom" extend to the Thugs? How about polygamy? Ritual stoning of adulterers? When examined, all these "defences" come down to special pleadings for a particular and privileged viewpoint to the exclusion of others.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thuggee
Cheers,
Puddin'
A tender heart is an asset to an editor: it helps us be ruthless in a tactful way.
--- The Chicago Manual of Style
-
Cheers,
Puddin'
A tender heart is an asset to an editor: it helps us be ruthless in a tactful way.
--- The Chicago Manual of Style
come down to special pleadings...
Yes, usually special pleadings for acts that, for the rest of us, are illegal and usually harmful to someone.
Lisa
"MY religion requires me to make human sacrifices... starting with YOU!"
As far as I'm concerned, the
As far as I'm concerned, the law should say that you are free to practice your religion as long as you are not trying to force others to comply with your religion's rules or participate in your religious activities.
And yes, I realize that'd lead to some *really* interesting confrontations regarding children.
Given that we've got a local church whose members have been hauled into court a number of times because they wouldn't get medical treatment for their kids (several deaths and one case of possible permanently impaired vision) I don't have a lot of sympathy for the parents in such confrontations.
Brooke brooke at shadowgard dot com
http://brooke.shadowgard.com/
Girls will be boys, and boys will be girls
It's a mixed up, muddled up, shook up world
"Lola", the Kinks
Having watched the video...
...it seems it's more about Ms. Johnson's inflexibility. She could have requested a transfer to a department where she wouldn't have a conflict, but then where would it end, as has been noted. She didn't just disagree with the policy of the store, but seemed fairly insistent that the store cater to her individual beliefs. I've worked at places where I discovered found myself conflicted with their policies. My choice was to resign and seek employment elsewhere.
What disturbs me the most about this story is that this is the face of faith for so many in our community; how can anyone find anything loving in the open arms of God when we stand in the way and trip them as they approach? As I've noted before, there are more than several of us here who profess faith in general and many in specific faiths. Some of us are ministers as well, and I know from personal experience that it is frustrating for all of us do profess faith to see others of our community hurt by the lack of love they have or are continuing to receive.
I'm so sorry for any hurt or discouragement or rejection any of you have received in the name of god. On my own behalf alone, but I expect I have company here as well, I apologize.
Dio vi benedica tutti
Con grande amore e di affetto
Andrea Lena
Love, Andrea Lena
I felt the blood lust for years after.
I understand. I knew from the beginning that what I had going was not voluntary. I knew that I believed in God and his power to heal. I still do. In the final analysis, I had to conclude that I was either born to fuel the fires of hell, or that I was not broken. I alone knew in my heart of hearts that I loved God and had faith in him.
All too many of us have felt the pain of being spiritually crucified, and now I had too.
To this day, when I run into someone who wants to punish me for something that I did not ask for, the blood lust comes on me and I spiritually tear them to shreds.
I pray that someday, the pain and rage will subside and I will become once again someone pleasing to God.
The family are starting to come around again, and now I must ask God to cool the fires of hell burning in my heart. That I have avoided violence against those who torment me is a gift from God.
The journey of a Transgendered woman is so painful. I usually warn people off, doing my best to discourage them from messing with hormones. I try to convince them that they must be wrong. Some get mad at me because they feel that I could be a mentor. I just don't want anyone coming back to me and blaming me for the pain that they feel after starting to transition. I don't know how to be a gate keeper, so please do not ask it of me.
I simply can not imagine why it is that I seem to have so little trouble now. I do not understand it but am very thankful.
Gwendolyn
This is stupid
This is one of the most stupidist things I have seen in awhile.
Lets put all the factors on the table shall we.
This college girl in the states is working at a store. States colleges are well known for pulling pranks where person x is sent to store x with a specific dare to be done. She is more than well aware of such things.
The transperson was just trying to find the outfit and wanted to innocently try something on but was denied.
College girl probably laughed and said go use the mens room. Offence was not the motive.
Transperson escalates the situation by complaining to store about it. Which is perfectly fine to do so.
Manager confronts college girl who responds in probably the worst way. Gets fired for prejudice. Goes home complains to mom who is in all likelyhood pretty scarred from prejudice. Tells the daughter, who probably hasn't set foot in a church in years, how to fight back.
College girl then does so which gets picks up by the news. She has little choice but to continue. Probably doesn't like it either.
The store has to stand by their policy.
The transperson has to stand by for equal rights.
The college person has to stand on religios beliefs to save face.
This is a comedy of errors that is fast going out of control.
WHo is really to blame, society's rules. Its pretty sad when society is so inflexable that the individuals choices are removed.
How will this end up. In court I pity the judge on this one. No one will win, The transperson's name will be brought into the open ruining their life. THe college girl won't be able to get a job in any place but where bigots are in control, which as a minority herself will probably end up on the criminal side of things.
All these lives ruined over a misunderstanding. The final two combatants will be the store and the religous group, who in all likelyhood, couldn't really care less.
Who will lose, those of us that fall into the transgender catagory will recieve extra, and very unwanted, scrutiny.
That dark skinned/black/african american(I have no idea which is the current political correct term) is screwed. She opened her big fat mouth and said the wrong things already on open tv.
The trans person is screwed her name will come out and is gonna need a ton of support to not commit suicide.
This whole mess just makes me shake my head because when all is said and done its really stupid.
So what now go around with name cards with little ids that say we are male/female? How do we prevent it from happening again?
Anyways thats my take on the whole thing.
college cities
Tel, just can't seem to agree with the above (comedy of errors).
Had a longer text but that was my lobby hat. Not the place for it and I'm way out of the frontlines for a few years now so shutting up.
It’s not just bigotry, it’s so much worse.
It’s not just bigotry, it’s so much worse.
In fact, that the part that bothers me the most about this. It’s not just the simple bigotry that one sees in all anthropoids to shun or attack anyone they see as different. That at least has some rational basis in evolutionary terms. This was far more insidious than that, in that it lies in the fundamental flaw with which so many people apply religion; which is to say, they honestly feel that their primary belief in whatever, is the sole and final determinant on whatever they want reality to be. Any belief they hold, is a justification to treat another person how-so-ever they feel like treating them at the time.
Forget the fact that she is twenty-seven, and does not know that she is an employee obligated to act upon her employer’s policies, or to leave, or to simply ask for help with a situation she is not comfortable with. All the ethical options open to her, assuming, god forbid, that she should take a moment to talk to that person to get to know him/her. Forget the fact that as someone who aspires to a higher education, she is so ignorant of the principals of predicate logic and empirical evidence that she is unaware that she is commenting on a medical condition, developmental phenomenon, and yes even a psychological syndrome, that is both demonstrable and wide spread, with the phrase “I don’t believe.â€
Make no mistake folks, the real issue here, is that she is one of the people who’d be dragging that poor person out to a stake, piled high with faggots of kindling - if it were not for three or four hundred years of laws - And who would go to church singing about the deed. (Assuming she is not a hypocrite as well as a bigot, and is using this issue to justify her actions only.) All In spite of the fact that her ‘God Given Rights’ actually originate in political instruments called the constitution or Magna Charta, etc., and despite the fact that the variations in gender expression (and indeed sexuality.), which she so blithely denies, are observed throughout the animal kingdom.
It makes me very tired to remain politely silent, when people resort to antiquated fable and rote espousal of some perverse dogma to justify their inability to think with anything approaching morality or truth. Very weary indeed.
Sarah Lynn
Disorganized Religion
God help us: The inmates are running the institution!
I once considered studying for the ministry. But when I saw all the fighting between religions and even between little offshoots of minor sects of religions over minor doctrinal fluff, it turned my stomach.
Worse yet these same quibblers didn't seem to love God, just their petty prejudices.
Worse yet these misguided rabble think nothing of others: The milk of human kindness has dried to dust in their shriveled dugs.
As a child and teen, everyone was my friend; imagine how surprised I was to find out from my coreligionists that all those friends were going to Hell because they didn't go to OUR church. Bull!
Dennis Miller has a great line: I know there's a God because who else could have created Darwin?
If we love people, we love God! What's wrong with these idiots?
By golly, I've still got it: I can still preach a sermon! Too bad you won't hear this one in any church.
Ole
We are each exactly as God made us. God does not make mistakes!
Gender rights are the new civil rights!