004) My boobs are sore.

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Abigail Drew

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Let's see how many hits that title gets. LOL.

So yeah, my boobs are sore and tits extra puffy, have been all day today. No sign of strange lumps though, I have a feeling I'm about to grow some more. I also noticed something else over the last couple weeks: my body hair isn't growing back in as quickly, thickly, or coarsely, as it used to...

Anyone who's transitioned find that they noticed their body hair start to change last, or is this something weird with my particular inadvertent diet induced feminizing?

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what diet

What diet and where can i find it?

K.T. Leone

My fiction feels more real than reality

Katie Leone (Katie-Leone.com)

Writing is what you do when you put pen to paper, being an author is what you do when you bring words to life

uh... not really recommended.

The details can be found in one of my recent blog entries, Herbal Hormone Manipulation.

I definitely do not suggest actually intentionally using food as a replacement for HRT. Mine was purely inadvertent, and I highly doubt I'll wind up anywhere near "normal" looking.

Stick with a doctor and prescription HRT, it's tried, true, and fairly safe. HHM, as I'm calling it, is fairly safe, but it's definitely not "tried" or "true". It varies widely person to person, and since it's not officially supported medically, you could wind up wandering into unsafe territory if you try to use it intentionally as a replacement for HRT. Supplemental knowledge, to avoid causing yourself problems, is all I've intended it as.

I'm pretty sure I'm still in safe territory right now, but then, I don't have any insurance, so I can't see a doctor regularly, so all my attempts at taking care of my body have to be done with OTC or herbal methods. I don't want to risk harm by introducing another herbal supplement to my diet to try to curb the effects of the ones I'm already taking, so I'm just playing it safe and seeing where this ends up.

Abigail Drew.

I can't say from personal experience

.... as I am Asian and had only minimal body hair ( legs, underarms etc ) but it is my understanding body hair tends to go relatively fast.

However, post-surgery I have no need to shave my body at all.

Kim

this makes more sense...

It might be that the phytoestrogens are actually the most imbalanced of the things going on.

Hm...

With all the research I've done recently, changes in hair patterns are based directly on DHT levels, so my DHT levels must still have been fairly high, but my estrogen levels were also high. This might be starting to change now.

Tricky tricky thing, HHM.

Heh. I'm like a human guinea pig right now, and I'm also the mad scientist performing the experiment!

Anyways, thank you for your input. I hope to hear from someone with direct experience though.

Abigail Drew.

As I've thought about it more...

This actually does make sense. Saw Palmetto blocks PRODUCTION of dihydrotestosterone, traditional HRT uses androgen blockers that traditionally block all androgen RECEPTORS directly and universally.

For receptor blocking, the effects are immediate. You still have all those androgens floating around in your body, but they have nothing to bond to and eventually get flushed out.

For production blocking... any DHT already in my system, and the DHT that I am still producing are slowing the process down on me. And any DHT I do have, WILL bond to my androgen receptors, since I'm not clogging them up with a t-blocker.

It'll be interesting to see how much masculinity I wind up retaining. I'm sure I'm going to wind up looking like some sort of wacky hybrid. But hey, that'll fit my internal gender just perfect, since mentally/emotionally/spiritually/whatever I'm already a wacky hybrid.

Though body hair is one male trait I wouldn't mind getting rid of completely... I've always hated my body hair. Always. And I've had male hirsutism growing up. Since males are already hairy, as I'm sure you can imagine, this made me look more like ape than human.

EDIT: BTW, it does seem the use of aching boobs for a blog entry title gets more hits. 110 on this entry instead of the 66 on my other entry last night. Heh. I thought it'd be a fun social experiment on a site like this. I knew if I'd posted something like that on one of my gaming forums I'd've been swamped with thousands of hits within seconds. I could have titled it after the real point of the blog entry, which was the question about my body hair, but what would've been the fun in that?

Abigail Drew.

Well...

Well... As they are growing, they (or mine anyway) tend to be more tender. Puffy? I don't know I'd use that term (unless they're just getting started at the beginning). One thing that CAN make the girls hurt is a bra that's too small! (I bet that sounds good.)

As to body hair, it does tend to gradually become finer/less dense - but only gradually. If you were VERY hairy to begin with, I don't know how much help it will be. My self (on Rx HRT for almost three years now), my arm hair has mostly gone to very fine/very light, except around the wrists.

My leg hair's another story. It disappeared BEFORE HRT. I had a sleep study - and they attached two sensors on my hairy legs with very sticky "tape" sensor patches. When they were removed, the patches pulled the hair with it - so I had a square with no hair on each leg. Yes, it looked funny. I figured good excuse to remove the rest without comment. So I went to the local CVS and got a box of the "Sally Hanson" wax sheets (clear plastic with the wax between two sheets - you warm them by rubbing - separate the sheets and apply each to spots to remove hair.) In any event, I removed most of my leg hair that way... It never grew back except in a few very small areas (behind the knees, for example - a sucky spot to shave!) The only thing my docs can guess is that this happened about the time I went on anti-thyroid (I was hyper thyroid) meds and that my testosterone level was already (naturally) very low.

So - yes hair thinning can/does happen as a result of HRT (even on the face, not that it does enough good there to be a LOT of help, but at least the T isn't fighting the electrolysis...). Skin can also change slowly. If you've a little bone mass issues (I did) HRT can help there (I had to go off my calcium supplement!) It is even POSSIBLE, though I understand very rare, for the skeleton to CHANGE. I've gotten an inch taller, and I know another girl who's hips are widening, painfully.

Hormones (prescribed or via food) are powerful things! If anyone's doing anything along this line - get medical help to make sure you're okay (LABS!).

Anne

changing skeleton...

Thanks for the reply, much of what I might say in return is already covered in my response to Bobbie, except this.

I do think my skeleton might be changing. My feet, for one, described below. going from 8.5 extra wide to 8 regular is quite a change. Oddly, I didn't notice it happening, only realized it after trying to wear an old pair of boots that used to fit me perfect, and are now like trying on clown shoes.

My fingers as well... They're slimming too much to simply be loss of pudginess, I think.

As far as I know, my hips widening is only a shifting of my gut to my hips.

Maybe HHM is more powerful than anyone would've thought... :O

I have been on these supplements for most of the year, though. Only started noticing changes 4 months ago.

Alas... I cannot afford a medical professional... Only person in my family who knows anything medically at all is a nurse, so I doubt she could help either.

I really don't want to start taking phellodendron bark to inhibit my aromatase, that could cause even more problems and just as likely not solve any as it would be that it might curb some of this.

So, I just watch the changes myself and hope I don't have any problems. If I notice anything that seems cancerous or otherwise dangerous, I suppose I'll just have to foot the bill to see a doctor anyways.

Abigail Drew.

Skeletal changes...

I didn't really get it that you aren't really transitioning or undergoing HRT, and your changes are actually "accidental" changes due to your anti-hair-loss herbal supplements. Sorry 'bout that...

Anyway. About skeletal changes - Though you read about it a lot in the stories here in BC, hormones and chemicals don't really change the skeleton's shape. What they can do is to change the bones' ability to produce certain chemicals and blood cells (bones produce red and white blood cells and female hormones) as well as so many other things, change their density, and affect their ability to shield you from infection.

I'm sure you read a lot about changing skeletal structures in the stories here in BC, but in reality, what people undergoing HRT claim as a changing skeletal structure is actually mostly a redistribution of fat. Widening hips are due to more adipose tissue on the hips, butt and thighs and not a change in skeletal structure (and with a thinner waist, it adds to an illusion of even wider hips). You mentioned you had a lot of fat before. I'm sure that you weight loss has changed many of your clothes sizes, including shoe size, making them both longer and wider, or vice versa.

If you are exercising or doing something deliberate to influence your weight, that's one thing. But unintentional changes in weight may be indicative of something bad. Unexplained weight loss is a symptom of cancer, for example. "I'm pretty sure I'm still in safe territory...." According to my doctor, whose practice involves a lot of work with TS/TG, for him, these words are some of the scariest words in the world. If the effects of the "herbs" you are taking are indeed as strong and varied as you say, clearly you are affecting your body's hormonal and chemical balance. The "accidental" changes happening to you may be symptomatic of, or a by-product of other changes that may be detrimental. Those who are undergoing HRT do so and accept the risks, which are many and substantial. Most diagoned with GID accept the risks only because they can't live the way they are anymore. Along with less hair on the body and more boobs come heart disease, cancer and liver trouble. I don't really know much about thwpe side effects of herbal supplements, but from what I know, side effects from herbal stuff are supposed to be extremely minor. If the effects of your stuff really are as noticeable as you say they are, I think it's a good thing to have a checkup. If you can't afford it, maybe a visit to a free clinic for a blood test?

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The weight loss is definitely not unexplained.

I've been eating smaller portions more often and I'm doing hard physical work as a groundskeep, as well as riding my bike a minimum of 10 miles every day.

When I was overweight, I had been in, and then just come out of, a major depressive episode, so I would go long stretches at a time "forgetting" to eat anything, and then suddenly binge... I wasn't moving much at all, let alone all the exercise I'm getting now.

They do seem to be awfully powerful, I will agree with that.

A free blood test, didn't even think about finding out if such a thing were possible. AFAIK, there aren't any "free" clinics where I live, just ones that you pay on a sliding scale based on your personal income. I'm bringing home somewhere around 500 every two weeks right now, so dunno where on the scale that'd put me.

From my understanding, plant based pseudo-hormones and reduction/conversion inhibitors actually have fewer non-hormone related side effects than animal-produced steroids. Of course, the plants that contain these things usually contain other things as well that can have their own set of effects. It's definitely dangerous. If it were studied more and used in place of HRT by medical professionals, would it be as dangerous as steroid-based HRT? I don't think anyone is currently in a position to say anything one way or another. It hasn't been studied as thoroughly as the steroids have been and is still a fairly "young" science.

Can it be an alternative to steroid-based HRT? Maybe... Again, still a young science.

If I at any point feel like I'm in danger, I can always try to find something else for anti-depression instead of Chasteberry, and then also try to foot the bill to see a doctor.

I suspect the changes will be perhaps swift for a time, then I'll settle into some strange sort of androgyny.

Something I find curious is that much of this stuff has been used as remedies, or even part of recreational diet in far eastern countries, and they have some of the highest health rates. They also have more androgyny. Women with smaller breasts, men with larger breasts, neither gender having much body hair... The exact combination I have right now... probably uncommon.

Am I nervous about it? Heck yeah, why do you think I've decided to watch anything that changes in my body much more carefully now on, and am starting to ask these kinds of questions? I'd have to be a fool thrice-over to not have any concern at all.

What research has been done on HHM, seems to indicate that there shouldn't be any major irreversible damage done.

Abigail Drew.

I never did get sore boobs myself

I noticedÂ changes in my body hair only six, maybe eight months into the HRT, but I suppose part of the reason was that my HRT regimen was slightly less/smaller than normal as I was smaller than most and was a litle too thin for any regimen more... agressive - my doctor was concerned about heart, liver and kidney effects.

Then again, I am half Italian, and Italians have that reputation about hair, so maybe that's why. Â My facial hair was largely unaffected, though, so after my SRS, I had three months of very comprehensive electrolysis sessions. Â The hair on the few spots that didn't take became finer, though, but I didn't want to look splotchy, so I had another series of electrolysis sessions but by that time, I was able to find a job so I could afford it this time without hurting.

The first effects of HRT that I noticed was my skin. Â Less than a month into my program, I felt my skin smoother, softer and more sensitive. Â I did feel, though, that my skin scratched more easily - nothing major, though, it just felt like it.

My boobies never did ache or anything like that. They did come in fairly quickly, but didn't grow as rapidly or as much as I wanted. Â The whole time, though, their "handles" became super-sensitive, but they didn't grow or become larger. Â Early on, I learned to wear bras - the smallest I can get as my boobies were less than a twelve-year old for a long time - coz shirts and blouses on the nipples weren't ok (can be painful, actually). Â They didn't grow much then, but overall but the nipples became definitely longer. Â I am, at present, a slightly small B, which works well for me, given padded bras are pretty common so clothes hang on me well enough, and most fashions nowadays suit small-breasted gals. Â Still, though I can't prove it, I think they're still growing. Â At least the nipples and areolae are still growing, that's definite, though it took about three years before that started to happen.

Anyway, I think my own experience isn't too unique from others who have gone, or are undergoing transition - the hair on my head became slightly lighter but much softer and straighter (though not necessarily thicker), my skin tone became a bit lighter, and I can slightly see a few veins on my hands and it became drier and easier to sunburn. Â I gotÂ more fat on hips, thighs, butt, in between my thighs and in my upper arms. Â I also lost fat in my shoulders and waist, which was great. Â Those who know me know I have a problem putting on weight, but the HRT and the SRS helped with that, although after a couple of years, my weight went down to 110, although it fluctuates up and down nowadays, mostly down (probably coz I don't eat much and I don't ge enough sleep). Â What it did, though is its given meÂ chubby cheeks and made me.. puffier overall. Â I pee a lot more often now, but less... volume each time, and I get more headaches and my moods are more.. mercurial, but not that much really. Â

And I smell a lot less than before - that's not to say Â I had BO before, but my sweat is less... acidic and more musky now, although I'm only really able to tell this by the smell of my clothes.

Anyway, I'm sure you'll encounter all of this as you continue on with transition, but it's best to temper your expectations. Â And be sure to get regular checkups n not to monkey around with your medication or dosages - we have a higher risk for cardiovascular problems, cancer, diabetes, kidney and blood problems, and so many other things, so we shouln't take risks.

well...

Thank you for your response! Though I'm not intentionally transitioning, I'm not intentionally doing anything really. Just taking an herbal to stop my male-pattern baldness that started in, an herbal for anti-depression, and eat too much soy product... BTW, the herbals ARE working on what they were taken to do, but they're doing these other things too.

I don't wear a bra yet, and yesterday and today and tomorrow are all very hot, so the nipples may have just been that. Or maybe the nipples themselves are growing more as well... *shrug*

Anyway, on my legs, much of my hair is simply gone. It hasn't grown back. It's not in patches or anything embarrassing like that, it's more like how it sometimes takes several passes with an epilator to pull all the hair, and the first few passes just makes it sparser each time. Well, it's become sparser, like that. What hair is left is finer, but not much.

Haven't really noticed anything on my chest or back yet, they're still just as fur-covered as always.

My arms and hands on the other hand, seem to be rapidly reverting to peach fuzz. And I do mean rapidly. I only noticed the changes in my legs because I noticed my arms first and decided to check the other things.

Oddly, the first thing I noticed were my boobs. They're not really even full A cups yet, but I used to be flat as a rock there even when I was 180+ lbs. Second thing were my fingers. This I just wrote off as part of my weight loss, now, I'm no longer so sure. Next, I noticed that my waist continued narrowing even past it's pre-depression-induced obesity. I noticed my hips widening fairly recently, and that's when I realized something more was up with me than simple gynaecomastia. Since then, on Sunday I noticed that I no longer fit in my Sunday boots... due to my work schedule, and church having been in the morning, it had been a while since I'd gone, this month my ward switched to afternoon church, so it was the first time I'd worn them in nearly four months. They're mens 8.5 extra wide. The most recently that I went shoe shopping I tried on extra wides like usual and they hadn't fit right, tried on size 8 regular's and they fit perfectly, but I've grown used to the toe room in 8.5, so I ended up buying mens 8.5 regular. At the time, I hadn't thought much of it, just figured the styles were different or something... Silly thought, I know. I became a member here when all I'd noticed to that point were the boobs. Oddly, I haven't really noticed an overall greater skin sensitivity, but then, it could be more sensitive and my extremely high pain tolerance is causing me not to "notice" any of it other than peripherally. I do mean high pain tolerance, how many people do you know break their thumb and only notice it three days later, and that, only because someone else pointed the swelling and bruising out to them and nearly dragged them to the ER and insisted on paying for it?

Abigail Drew.