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I'm not just talking about things like "Men hunt, women clean and have babies" here, either.
Growing up in the South, in a very small, backwater community, I was exposed to a lot of what look in retrospect, to be downright stupid social stigmas.
What got me thinking about this was reading a popular story on LGTales about a boy who starts practicing ballet. If I had had that open to me - i.e. if I had been born a girl here, or just plain born anywhere else, I would be in a lot better physical shape today.
It's not just things like ballet that would have literally gotten me killed though.
Only girls take choir. Only girls take piano lessons.
Sounds pretty daft, doesn't it? It gets better though.
Only girls played the flute/clarinet in marching band. If you were a boy in the band, you either played drums, brass, or sax (because nobody in Arkansas would call Bill Clinton a sissy ;-))
OH! I thought of another one too. Home-Ec. UGH. I loved home-ec, but the only reason I avoided getting the crap kicked out of me is because I took it with three of the toughest guys in school, who themselves were desperate to bring up their GPA ;-) (They actually turned out to be pretty decent guys too. They just had rough home-lives, as I found out when we got grouped together for a project. The teacher loved our salad presentation ^_^)
There were plenty of male stigmas too, like unless you were physically disabled like myself and a guy I actually became close friends with despite our grade differences, you had damned well better be an athlete, whether it's traditional football/basketball, or tennis, golf, track, etc.
Oh, and only girls worked on yearbook staff. Talk about a hostile environment for men. I don't know how I became "one of the girls", but I was really lucky in that those girls were never caustic towards me, never saw me as a threatening male encroaching on their space. I loved that. It was my one refuge during a school day back then. But I digress :-)
I'll probably end up writing a short story based on this little rant, but I can't guarantee how good it'd be. If I wrote it true to life, it would be short and unpleasant. If I wrote it true to fantasy, well, someone's walking away with a toothache.
I might just write it for myself though because in retrospect, there's a lot I wanted to do as a child that I couldn't because "that's for girls". I AM a girl, and I was then, but that's another can of worms I don't feel like opening in the scope of the same blog post.
Instead I want to open the floor, so to speak. What kinds of stupid "What? Why is THAT considered gender-specific?" things have you encountered either growing up or as an adult?
As for me, I'm about to hop on the exercise bike, then get a shower, but between the two I'll have plenty of time to dwell on possible stories :-D
Comments
stupid gender roles
When I was in elementary, only girls could be crossing guards at my school (dont know why) Plus, they were expected to wear skirts, so guess who wished to join the crossing guard team? (Me!) Later, we had the home Ec/shop thing that drove me crazy. To be artistic or musical (except maybe if you played rock guitar) was very suspect for guys, and of course only butch women tried to do sports other than figure skating when I was young. I'm sure I can think of others...
"You can survive a couple of weeks without food. You can survive a couple of days without water. You can even survive a couple of minutes without air. But you cannot survive for even a minute without hope."
Dorothycolleen
Librarian
It wasn't that the stigmas that kept me in line were so monolithic and insurmountable where/when I grew up, what I regret is that I was such a wimp about them. One example- The library was the Happiest Place on Earth to me as a ten year old, and it only seemed right that I should grow up to work there. But all it took was my mom gawking like I'd just pooped in the collection basket and decreeing, "Oh no, honey. A librarians no kind of job for a man!", and that was it for my dream. So, finding nothing else I really liked I became a wino (wanted to be a bag lady but they nixed that idea too).
This was one of the reasons feminism made total sense to me when it came along as a major movement in my teens and early 20's and I joined up. All these stupid pointless gender constraints...
~hugs, Veronica
And remember...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifLqzLEB3E0
In *my* school...
A private boys' school, no less, being cast as a girl in the annual musical wasn't considered sissy... but being in the chess club was!!
Michelle
Stupid things
The librarian thing rings true from personal experience. At age 15 we all took an aptitude test to help find the career choices we were most suitable for. When they came back to us I found myself the lone archivist/librarian in a room full of policemen, firemen, soldiers and skilled manual trades. Suffice to say it was largely taken as confirmation of the widely held belief that I was a very girly gay kid. *sigh*
The other 'Za?' moment at school was trying to work out why the 'boys' had to play basketball while the girls had to play netball. I really love netball and I'm a half decent wing defence too from my experience of playing in a mixed gender team in my 20's but at school my desire to play netball was taken in much the same vein as asking to wear a dress to school.
"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it."
Unfortunately these stereotypes are used a lot
and are indeed the meat and potatoes of so many T stories *gag*. The kid who gets put into home-ec once they change gender at school is a good one. The protagonist only helps out doing housework after they become girls. Only girls join cheerleading ( yes there are male cheerleaders. ) Lesbians are ugly and wear no make up and only wear short hair if they don't happen to be part of a trans girl's world. Not always used but it is there. Goth girls are mean and weird people. A transgirl will always go for a dress or skirt after transitioning. A t-girl will lose emotional control as soon as they become girls and cry like banshees. A T-girl will become all passive and lovey dovey for her man and swoon because she was looking for one all her life *rolls eyes*.
I am not saying all of the above is always used but they are used enough to be notable.
Kim
I'm not sure I agree or disagree
One of the biggest dislikes I have with some of the most popular current serials (Bike is not among these) on going at the moment is they are so stereo typical. They depersonalize women and young women, putting them into preconceived cubbyholes. They become teeny bopper perceived ideals without substance. The transformee in my latest story still hates to go shopping. She did not undergo huge personality changes. She's just in the right skin. She isn't thrust into a whole litany of preconceived niches created by people who don't have a clue. She is just free to be herself.
Portia
Portia
Just to add a bit to that
That actually raises an interesting point that I've never really realized I did in Becoming Robin - specifically, texting and cell phones.
Robin was never all that outgoing as a boy. She kept a phone for emergencies only, and after transitioning and, forgive me, becoming Robin (*hides*), she saw no real reason to change that. She'll get her friends on four-way calling or video chat from time to time to connect with Andrea, but I don't think she's actually sent more than a single text message, whereas Allison early on was on the verge of a freakout when Nikki never texted her back about what was going on with her folks.
She did become much more outgoing, but in large part because she felt comfortable in her own skin enough to try things she never dared to try before ^_^
I've thought about the whole communications/texting/technology thing in the past, and how slow she is to get into it (she still doesn't own an MP3 player), but I never really thought to comment on it before now. :-)
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I try not to!
Columnist
A certain transphobic militant lesbian feminist Guardian writer I have linked to in the past does have one point I agree with to an extent: that so much of the idea reinforces traditional roles. She rather misses the point about GID, which is that the role is secondary to the perception of being in the wrong anatomy. One thing a transperson will want to do is to be perceived as their true gender, and unfortunately for role-breakers the most obvious things are shape, clothing and style, such as hair. A way of shouting 'this is what I am'
Where I get slightly nauseous myself is in the whole thing about make-up, ear rings (why?), cheerleading, etc. All of the lesbians I have tried to portray are women who happen to love other women, simple as that. One of them used tobe a Royal Marine Commando, and the only time she did 'glamour girl' was as a celebration,
The one gender-based role I do emphasise is a simple one: procreation. Motherhood is a keenly-felt pain for many people like me. That is life, though; deal with it.
Our School Never Allowed Male Cheerleaders
Our school never allowed male cheerleaders. We did have quite a few athletes in Chorus and no one dared question their masculinity. I was in the Chorus, my freshmen year, but I moved up to the audition only, Singers, group for my final three years. The guys would wear a Navy blazer, white dress shirt, red tie and grey slacks, while the girls wore a Navy blazer, white blouse, red skirt, red scarf tie and black 2 inch heels. On more than one occasion, the girls complained about having to wear skirts and pantyhose. I would sit there and think, "I would gladly trade places with you" I guess our school being in Kentucky was a bit milder in the gender stereotypes than the deeper South like Arkansas and Texas.
My typing still suffers, because ...
"Only girls can take typing."
And Home Ec was off limits in HS, despite the fact my Jr Hi, which was a feeder for that HS, actually required boys to take one month on Home Ec, each year. ( Yes, that month, the girls took shop. )
of course, all sports were for either one gender or the other, except basketball. But even there, the girls played by 'girls rules, only 3 bounce dribbles, any player could only play in one half court or the other, no snatching the ball, ( that would be unladylike), etc. Hey, I used to watch! I did play boys baseball & JV Basketball one year.
The one year I was in Military School, ( no it was not forced on me to 'make a man out of me'), was a definitely all male environment. That was the only year from 5th grade to Jr College I was able to play soccer style football.
However, overall, my HS, (1958-1962), if not all accepting, did not harass those who came out publicly as different, genderwise.
For the most part, they just ignored it. I do not remember anyone who was really bullied, and I've stayed in touch with several LGBT individuals who were accepted at out 40th reunion. Next year, they get to meet Holly, giggle.
Holly
Holly
It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice.
Holly
New York City was more tolerant
In the 60’s, when I was in elementary school, I took piano, and so did both my older (non-TG) brothers. It wasn’t considered something for girls. In fact, I wanted to learn violin, and my mother made me take piano.
The only things I remember that were gender-specific were playground games and sports. Outside, girls played hopscotch and jacks, and boys played touch football or baseball. Inside, boys played basketball and girls did gymnastics. I told the gym teacher I didn’t want to play basketball and wanted to do gymnastic instead. He said I couldn’t do gymnastics, but he let me play chess with him instead of playing basketball (looking back, that was awfully nice of him). I tried hopscotch and jacks a couple of times, but I did so poorly (of course, I had no experience with either) that between embarrassment from that and teasing from the boys, I didn’t try again.
I did get teased for being a sissy, but I was never beaten up or anything. It wouldn’t have been tolerated in our school (and my mother would have killed someone if it happened). I got pulled from public schools when I was nine and from then on went to very liberal private schools, so I had a relatively easy time of it through junior high and high school. By the time I was in high school I was a computer/science nerd, and that gave me a crowd to hang out with.
I read lots of stories (fiction and real-life) and see all the gender stereotypes that kids are subjected to, but I just didn’t see that in my schools. I didn’t get it from my parents, either. I wasn’t masculine, but that didn’t bother them. I was very lucky in that.
Zoe, you hit the nail right
Zoe, you hit the nail right on the head. I could go on for hours grumbling about social stigmas, but you covered it pretty well.
School
I did a lot of masculine and feminine things growing up. Did hunting, fishing, camping, farm work, gardening, cooking, canning, etc. School was OK because I tutored a lot of big guys and I hung with Judge's kids, the DA's daughter and the Banker's daughter among others (there wasn't a lot of angels in our group). I got to teach physics occasionally when principal wasn't feeling well. Spent most of typing class repairing machines. Made the obligatory lamp in 4H and won ribbons locally and state on it and on canning I did. Mom taught the girls in 4H how to sew but taught us to sew and cook at home. Tested out of shop because I grew up doing that. I did take piano classes and played cornet and bass depending on concert or marching band. I tried to enlist in Navy but was too heavy. The Army couldn't draft me for the same reason. I majored in undecided at college but my favorite classes were folklore, religion and computers. I have a synthesizer keyboard I still mess with. I was chicken and waited until after mom and dad died to transition and then did hormones, name, DL, SSA, Pass Port, Voter, etc except birth certificate (carry official copy of court order name/gender around). Got terminated a few months later. I have worked in computers, as a paramedic and in an office since transitioning and I was once described as a little masculine on a contracting firms paperwork I read upside down. Two younger brothers pretty much disavow my existence but my older brother and his kids love me. My best friend scolded me when I transitioned but she supports me now. I live in a small East Texas town and I try not to shove my status in anyone's face but I don't take crap either. I think most people just see an heavy set frumpy older lady. I hardly ever wear makeup other than lipstick, most of the time bra less with just top, jeans and flats. I have a CHL and have something in my purse most of the time. The only thing that has slowed me down since transitioning full-time almost twenty years ago is a car wreck two years ago and a mild stoke on 1/1/2011.
To all of you just starting out. Find someone or a group to talk to (I met with group using same psychiatrist as well as with individuals). Attitude is everything. You will lose some family and friends (I lost two brothers). Have a plan. Not only for those just starting out. Have a backup job in mind and get training before you need it. I got my EMT-I before I came out at work. After I was terminated I tried to keep working in computer field but finding contracts got harder and harder so I got my licensed paramedic. Medical folks seem more tolerant, saving a life feels good and driving an ambulance with lights and siren is a blast.
I don't remember
things being so stereotyped as a kid. Because we were three boys, helping in the house or garden was not seen as anything other than helpful. I learned how to keep house and cook when my Dad died and my mother had to work full time, although those things were encouraged anyway. I didn't paticularly see it as gender specific. I also tinkered with bikes and to a lesser extent cars. The difference with my elder brother, he didn't mind getting dirty, I did. My younger brother was lazy sod, and didn't do much of anything except sport and being out with his mates. Being a loner I had fewer friends.
I went from a co-ed junior school to a boy's grammar school and spent most of my time wishing I was next door in the girl's one. I played sports and although rubbish at most of them enjoyed the exercise. Occasionally, I liked to surprise and actually tackle someone bigger than I, but like I said, I was rubbish and too small to be a serious part of the rowing team either.
Having a back problem, my upper body strength is poor and always has been so climbing and such things are a big challenge, especially with a fear of heights thrown in. Walking the levadas in Madeira was quite an ordeal at times, with a two hundred foot drop below a thin ledge.
Fortunately I do a job which is dominated by women in terms of numbers. So transitioning at the time was no problem and the health service, has on the whole been sympathetic to such things - I suppose it has to, having large numbers of gays and lesbians.
So things could have been worse. I'd never have made it as a ballerina even if I'd had the chance - my back and lack of balanced coordination would have stopped that, plus no great sense of rhythm - but I can ride a bike, which brings me great pleasure, and given my back probs, ladies bikes are a better fit.
In July, it will be 25 years since I transitioned. Do I celebrate it? Dunno, if I do it'll be very discreet. There are loads of people who know but even more who don't, and I live in stealth, as divorced woman with her two cats. One or two of the locals still find me an object of derision - don't know why, other than to suggest they're arseholes, because the rest accept what they see or cope with me.
I suppose being a loner, and on the edge of whatever group I'm with tends to favour solitary occupations like writing and birdwatching, or cycling and walking - perhaps I'll give one of them a try one of these days.
Angharad
Angharad
Gender stereotypes well alive today
In the community I live in - based on a fundamentalistic/orthodox christian religious doctrine - gender stereotypes are alive and kicking even in 2011. The local high school is gender discriminating. And even though the faculty is aware of the fact, they are unwilling to change that.
* In grade 9 the girls have to take cooking classes, while the boys have to take agriculture classes.
* In grade 10 the girls have to take sewing classes, and the boys have to take information technology classes.
My oldest daughter - now in grade 10 - has been ranting about this discrimination, since it seems that the school offers no information technology classes for girls. And this in a society that prides itself as being progressive.
If that school accepts any money from a governmental source
It is breaking the law. Pure and simple.
Agreed
Assuming this is in the US, if it’s a public high school, or takes any government funds, it’s a clear violation of the law. I’m sure the ACLU would be happy to take on the case.
Zoed they are still alive & well today
But in my area they wen't so bad as jusut about everybody had to take home ec eather 7th or 8th grade. U;m still under the male sterotype here at home but I'm only 35 miles from St. Louis so I guss thats why I did do foot ball my Derior year bit I was just an equipment manager I never played. I wish thing were diffrent but unforchantly they are not :(.
Love Samantha Renee Heart
Love Samantha Renee Heart