Dead trees

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The new feature on Kindle allows an author to publish print-on-demand books. It's a bit of a faff, but I now have Cider Without Roses on sale in paperback. Remember, if buying, please do it through the BCTS link to generate some income for the site.

Comments

I Am the Lorax

. . . who speaks for the trees, which you seem to be chopping as fast as you please. But I'm also in charge of the brown Bar-ba-loots, who played in the shade in their Bar-ba-loot suits and happily lived eating truffula fruits. Now, thanks to your hacking my trees to the ground, there's not enough truffula fruit to go 'round!

Jill

Angela Rasch (Jill M I)

side note

for a forest to grow properly some trees need to be harvested.

It's strange that all paper is made from new trees never recycled lumber that ends up in landfills most of the time. Yes there is some recycled paper but that is only like 2-10% recycled.

Recycled Lumber

Not everywhere puts it in Landfill. Here, it goes for recycling into god knows what.
Any I get my hands on gets used in my wood burner. If it a decent bit then it might get used in the garden.
Even the fence panels that got blown down in the recent storm will get used in the fire.

Ha-ha

I saw them around 1970. A few years later, I tried to get them to play at Central London Poly but the stage (where 'Welcome to the Canteen' was recorded) did not have enough height for pyrotechnics.

The ENTS Sec booked Argent instead.

the type of lumber makes a big difference.

MadTech01's picture

If the Wood is Pressure Treated then they can not really do anything with it. The wood is toxic if you burn it and I am sure from seeing how they make paper it would become an issue because I know that some paper mills burn there scraps to generate steam for helping to make more paper instead of using other sources.

Side note most paper we use today is all made of a specific type of wood, that is better for the printing machines, and most construction wood scraps that do get recycled are turned into Plywood or particle board. There has to be another thing we can do it will come when someone figures out a way.

"Cortana is watching you!"

not sure where you are

But in North america there is plenty of videos available of the different plywood/osb/particleboard/mdf manufactures.

Its all new trees no recycled stuff. Im serious here there is so much tossed into bins that get burnt at dumps or turned into mulch(a total waste really) its not funny

Many insurance companies also do not cover the burning wood stoves/steam plants. Therefore even small shops toss a lot into the trash.

I live in Texas, thank you.

MadTech01's picture

I know a lot of wood gets just tossed into landfills same with fresh produce as well it is sad, if it is turned into mulch that is not so bad, in fact that is far better than a landfill and good for the environment that mulch will help other plants grow.

And I was referring to pressure treated lumber not all wood products. during the treatment process they use some very nasty chemicals, the idea is to make the wood not rot after getting wet then dry repeatedly. And there are many warnings about not burning it because the smoke is very toxic.

I used to drive by a wood furniture company every day that recycled all there scraps, heck the wood dust filtered out of the air is recycled.

Now the issue with most home construction is yes, they just dispose of it the companies do not want to be bothered and do not care.

"Cortana is watching you!"

Purpose Grown

Having spent too many years working for a large commercial printer (magazines and advertising material) let me give you a few facts regarding printing paper. First off, most (I won't say all, I just don't know) forests used for paper, especially commercial printing, comes from purpose grown sustainable trees. Norway and Canada are large paper manufacturers and they use trees grown for that express purpose. These are grown using rotating land. Each area is single type trees, as each is harvested new seedlings are planted. By the time the company gets back to that particular plot those seedlings are mature trees ready to harvest. Often times the land used had no trees to begin with, so these trees represent an increase in the amount of forest. If this were stopped then those lands would go wild and the number of trees would actually decline.

Recycled paper is not of a quality useable for paper products. Our plant very carefully seperated our production waste which was graded by quality and sold to paper manufacturers. Only the best grade, unprinted trimmings and end rolls was of a quality usable for paper production. All other waste was used only for cardboard production. In addition, the customers would not accept recycled paper for their product.

Recycled paper only makes up a small percentage of paper content. I would say 2-4% post consumer waste. Even that little bit degraded the quality of the paper significantly. In order to bring the quality up to minimum standards it had to be treated with chemicals that are both expensive and not environmentally-friendly. What you the consumer might accept in your "green" cards and notepaper you will not accept when used for magazine production. We printed magazines such as Life, Rolling Stone, Wine Journal, and Men's Health, to name a few. All of these experimented with using recycled paper instead of first growth trees and without exception the subscriber response was negative. As new grades and types of recycled paper became available these tests would be rerun. The reaction was uniformally negative.

Recycled paper doesn't work well when printing photographs, not the quality of photos used in magazine production. Our presses were state of the art and if we could have reproduced photographs at an acceptable quality using recycled paper it would have been used. Recycled paper was also a problem when run on high speed presses. At 20,000 impressions a minute breakage became a significant factor. Modern printing and binding operation requires those speeds to be profitable. If 20-30% of your production time was spent down due to paper breakage you are losing money, bleeding money would not be an exaggeration.

One area where recycled paper is used frequently is in the newspaper insert/advertising flyers. These do not require the quality of reproduction that magazines do. We printed material for WalMart, CVS, Bass Pro shops, Pennys, and others and all used recycled paper at least part of the time.

So, when you get down to it, recycled paper is really only suitable for the production of various grades of cardboard. This may change in the future as new production techniques are developed, but I would hesitate to make a guess at when that might occurr.


"Life is not measured by the breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.”
George Carlin

If I am not mistaken

MadTech01's picture

Paper is not just wood pulp, I remember seeing on a show "How its Made" I think, that all paper for printing has a certain amount of pulverised stone (aggregrate) that is added to the paper in the process to help create the friction needed for things like ball-point pens to function into paper.

Am I right there?

"Cortana is watching you!"

Honestly I don't know

I read something about this not all that long ago, but I just don't remember. I do recall reading somewhere that clay of a specfic type is/was used in some paper, but again my memory may be faulty. Whenever we got in a new lot of paper we (material handlers aka lift truck drivers) had to cut a sample out of a roll chosen at random. This along with the mfr's label was turned in. The label would give the specifics for that lot of paper - grade, weight, coated/uncoated, purity, etc. The paper was usually supplied by the publisher, we didn't own it ourselves. So there would be times when the pressroom would be waiting on a specific batch of paper so they could start running. We had the specs on the paper so we could check it in and get the rolls to the presses.

Later on when I became a bindery operator most of the test jobs would come to me as I could be trusted to run the sample jobs correctly. So I got lots of experience evaluating the finished product production-wise. (I was also the lead machine on ESPN The Magazine as I could get running useable books faster than any of the other inserters. In the early days ESPN actually had cargo jets waiting at the airport to get the newsstand books to the East and West coasts as quickly as possible.)

I suppose you could Google paper production and learn what goes into making different types of paper if you really want to know. It just never was a factor for us out on the floor.


"Life is not measured by the breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.”
George Carlin

a common product perfect for post consumer paper

dawnfyre's picture

the paper egg cartons, flats, drink holder flats from restaurants.

breaking down the paper for recycling into pulp and using this pulp for these products works, consumer use of them the quality needed for print isn't there.

some print shops do use recycled paper, though for novels rather than magazines. the non glossy paper does work with recycled content.

some "paper" products using post consumer materials you don't want to think about. like used diapers are the source of recycled content for envelopes you use to snail mail something.


Stupidity is a capital offense. A summary not indictable.

I like this

I post a slightly humorous comment about printed books and we have a serious and sensible discussion on something important. Thank you all.

You started it.

MadTech01's picture

You dropped the stone in the ocean don't be surprised the ripples grew into a Tsunami!
Or you are the butterfly the flapped its wings in the amazon causing a tornado in the North American plains!

See where humor got Us!!!

All in Good Fun.

"Cortana is watching you!"

Fun, ain't it!

Yeah, I enjoy having a civilized discussion, particularly after this last presidental election. Different people have different experiences, I can enjoy learning new things. :-)


"Life is not measured by the breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.”
George Carlin

Something to Declare

Now also on dead tree/paperback format in a day or so. Erin's elves will be able to add a link here so that this site can get commission.