Asking a question of authors

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Although I am writing a western story over on Fictioneer, I am back to this group to ask a question because it has more authors.

When you write a story, do you know about what will happen when you begin it? Like I have said, my stories seem to write themselves. I have started in a direction with my story, "Prairie's Children" that I never dreamed about when I wrote the first chapter.

As for me, I find it very interesting, but I wonder if it is going to disappoint those who read it.

One little simple thing in Chapter 1 seems to be blooming out into the major part of the story which was not intented.

I wrote about Lizzie Jane becoming a heroine in her stories, now will it be Ruth's time in the wild west? We will see.

Maybe I am wrong. It may go some other way, but right now it doesn't look like it.

http://www.fictioneer.org/

Love,
Billie Sue

Comments

I dunno about others.

But, when I started my serial novel, I knew about where it would end and a number of the key issues when I started. I didn't have all the small details then. As I wrote, I maintained an outline that was between 2 and 5 episodes in front of where I was writing. I did this for two reasons - the first being that it let me drop hints in appropriate spots. The second, it provided a framework to make sure I knew where I was going and I didn't leave out any important detail. Now, I won't claim everything has gone the way I originally plotted it... Fairly close. The most common change, slight aceleration of certain aspects or slight increases in the importance of certain characters.

I know that's not the way all people write. I found it worked for me THIS time, and it's allowed me to maintain a fairly high rate of output. (That said, had I availed myself of an editor or three, I know the result of Who Was I would have been better realized.) One side benefit, I never ran into a writer's block, wondering what comes next. I got slowed down by subject matter a time or two, and more often by outside events (like writing my short story Comming Out).

My plan - when a side event wants to grow into the story, is to cut them short and save them for a possible follow-up story.

My 2 cents anyway... Not sure if it's worth even that much.

Annette

P.S. Sorry for my plugs.

I dunno about others.

Annette,

Your plugs are okay. No problem with that. I plug my stories every chance I get.

Sometimes I have an idea of what might be coming in the next chapter or two and, in that case, I leave hints. Sometimes the 'hints' are accidental and since they are already there, I use them to futher my stories.

In my newest contribution to Ficitioneer, the unexpected turn in the story is going to force me to go back to the first chapter and edit the age of the female character -- make her older.

It was intended to be a western love story and I am still looking that way, but with a new twist. Since it has been said that Wyatt Earp was town marshall at one time, I am thinking of bringing him into the picture to keep the story from getting out of hand.

Thanks for you comments. I needed to know how others do their work.

Love,
Billie Sue

Billie Sue

For me, it depends on the story

Some stories are mostly there in my head, waiting for release. Others start from the seed of an idea, and I let the characters take them until they sort out the conflict as best they can. Characters can be surprisingly inventive if you let them, and I like to create people and let them run.

For your current story, you have three choices. You can bring it to heel and make it go where you want it to; you can let your characters and the situations they find themselves in send the story where it wants to go; or you can combine the two and address the needs of the characters for their own self-realization while you push your own thoughts into the plot. I would suggest the third approach, because you may find that the issues the characters want to deal with relate somehow to the story you originally wanted to tell, and the story will be richer for the diversion in the end.

May the right words always find you! *smile*

Randalynn

Three it is then.

I'm game with the third one.

I generally like to give my characters enough rope to hang themselves, but every so often, I find them going off tangentially and threatening to ruin the plot if I don't give 'em a quick tug and yank 'em back.

It's a bit like cut-ups that Bowie used for Moonage Daydream (The rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders from Mars - 1972), expressing the ability in some cases of being able to find another point of view by doing so.

I feel that's often what happens when we authors give free rein to our characters. They seem to find themselves and while we have to keep a wary eye on them to ensure that they do stay at least close to the plot line, the story almost has a way of writing itself.

I don't think it's the words that need to find us, but the characters...

NB

Depends on what your writing

I have written three things.

The first a long serial which took me literally years, time and inclination being limited. In that case I knew were I was going and why right from the beginning. Otherwise I don't think I could have held it together nor could I have seeded the chapters with clues. The end I did not know. That developed as the characters came alive until, to my mind at least, it was the only option. Although perhaps not in the readers minds. :)

The second thing I wrote was short and came in one piece. That It was perhaps more of a cameo so there was no room for meanderings. Although it might be described as one big meander.

The third, in which I am still in the throes, falls between the other two in length. In this case I do know the end. And even the salient points in between it and the beginning. Always have. What is exercising my imagination is how to get from one landmark to the next.

So it depends on the story. Or perhaps how the idea for the story is conceived.

I think you must accept that you are always going to disappoint some readers. Whether few or many is related to the number you have. :) I would hold close to the fact that you find it very interesting. That is all that really matters.

My philosophy which roughly translates as 'sod the reader' I have expressed before. I will not elaborate on it again, Not here. Not at this moment. Except to point out that if the potential situation was reversed, i.e. the reader was interested but the writer bored, then only the hungriest hacks would ever write at all.

Hugs,

Fleurie

Fleurie

outline

I start with an idea - what's the key concept that drives this story? Then I'll figure out my cast, getting to know enough about them that I can find each one's voice. Sometimes I'll make notes about them; but usually I'll just keep that impression in my head.

I usually work from an outline, where I'll list the plot points I want to hit and then fill in the details, but sometimes when doing that I'll add a scene that wasn't in the original plan. For some of my stories I even plot the outline against a calendar, so I'll know how much time will pass for the characters. In one of them I even left the date markers in as chapter headings.

I'm working on my first serial now, where I do have some of my storyline mapped out, but I haven't decided where it's going to end up. There's a couple of different ways it could go, and I'm partially listening to my audience for opinions.

I ascribe to Randalynn's theory

I had a stoyline in mind when I started Timout and had several *waypoints* in mind for the story. That originally was Joanie's mutation, adapting to being a girl, learning her powers, figuring out what do with her LONG life, the trip to Whateley and her first few months there. Little was fleshed out except in my mind but I did put some of it to paper as a reminder and guide.

All sorts of intesresting things happened as I worked on it. That led to a rough outline and way-points out to 2030, if I wish and the readers will swallow it, and plots I never envisioned. When I made major changes, the whole blowing her identity by saving Melissa and becoming famous, gettin a record deal and a boyfriend, was one, I revised the *outine* to accomodate this.

Some people need and make excellent use of detailed ourlines, the Fury Saga comes to mind. Others can just wing it. Most of us fall inbetween. Some sort of guide makes scence simply to avoid forgetting to set up a later event.

John in Wauwatosa

John in Wauwatosa

Different strokes

erin's picture

I've done it many different ways. Working from detailed outlines is good. But the most fun for me is taking a blank screen and trying to fill it. Like this:

Rocky Petersen drifted through the water like a black ghost. The inky depths of the cold and desolate cove off the coast of Maine didn't let enough light penetrate to even show the shocking blue-and-orange safety chevrons on his wetsuit.

He liked the darkness. He kept his underwater torch off as long as he could, letting his eyes adjust. When he did turn the sealed beam on, it lanced into the murk, showing the craggy walls of the sinkhole at the bottom of Pewoq Bay and not much else.

Rocky checked his depth gauge. He always knew how deep he'd descended at any moment, an important safety rule. Just like always knowing where his diving partner was. Except today he hadn't brought a diving partner.

I've no idea where that might be going but it could be a lot of fun to find out. :)

- Erin

= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.

= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.

Me too!

I tend to tell the story to myself as it is happening. Like Erin said it is exciting because like the reader, the writer has no idea where it is going. I do try to have some set ending in mind, but if what my muse has in mind turns out to be better, I'm adaptable. I also try to include whatever image that inspired the tale to start with be it from dream, daydream or whatever. Despite the enthralling nature of such images they don't always make themselves easy to merge into print.

In fact if I 'over' outline or 'think about' the story before getting it in down in print I 'kill' the idea for myself. Just like crisis or over management by bosses can kick an offices moral into the nether regions, my muse is the same way. She demands her freedom of expression by Gawd, or strikes. Any writer can tell you that a muse's strike is far more serious that a mere writer's strike! :)
hugs!
grover

Responses

I am getting a lot of responses and I am reading and learning from each one of them. Some writers do as I do, some do a combination, and others work from outlines. It seems that all methods work.

I never know how my stories will end, but the one that caused the greatest alarm was "The Evil Dead Shall Rise"
(Chapter 6 of Country Girl" which is a stand-alone story, composed of 4 parts within a serial).

The problem I faced: With all the girls in the community being drug off by zombies, how in the world could that end without causing lasting determintal effects on the community? Well, it worked out in the last part.

When I starting the story about Lizzie Jane meeting Josephine Bocckerodd (who had to come from the future), how could I get her back without a time machine? As I neared the end, I used a well known children's story, "Alice in Wonderland" to solve the problem (going back through the white rabbit's hole). It was a silly story, anyway -- not intended to make sense.

So, I do have problems. But, so far, I have not had a writer's block. As I write, everything just comes to me. Sometimes I have to change something in a previous chapter (like changing the characters' age in my new story, "Prairie's Children").

(Now, I am in a pickle with that story. I want it to be a love story, but an unusual twist has popped up.)

Maybe, I ought to sit down and write an outline some day.

Love,
Billie Sue

Billie Sue

I don't want to know *everything*

I need to know enough to start, and have some idea of the basic conflicts, but I can't write it if I know *everything*.

A couple of times I've worked out a story from end to beginning, knew what would happen in each chapter, and by the time I was done mapping it out, I had exhausted my interest in the story and had zero interest in writing it.

What happens every time is that I have an idea and start writing, and then I realize that it couldn't happen the way I thought. So I scrap it and start again. But I couldn't foresee the "not working" until the characters started interacting.

That said, I've finished short novels and writen several dozen chapters of serial stories and realized that they sucked.

You have to write a lot of trash if you want to write something good.

writing methods

I have used a couple of different methods in writing.

In my first attempt Earth Part III, I had an idea of what and where I wanted my characters to go, but gave them free rein to do as they pleased. They took me in unexpected places and did unexpected things...... the problem was that they often wrote me into corners and gave me writers block.

My Second major attempt was totally different. With Healing a Princess the whole story started with my making a map on Photoshop. the map grew into a continent, then to two continents, then to a whole world. as the map grew, so did the story in my mind. but nothing was put down on paper until one day I sat down and wrote a 20 page final chapter of the story.

I then drew up not only character sketches for my major characters, but also detailed customs and ideas for the kingdoms that Tonya would possibly be visiting. Because I'm horrible with creating names, I purchased a baby name book and made a data base of names I liked. I then sat down and wrote the first 100 pages in 4 days....... that is a LOT for me. after writing the first 4 chapters, I made a detailed outline and have to everyonce in a while rein them in and force them down the right path.

With Camp K....... It started out with a story I had read here that was only 4 small chapters and never finished. I felt like I could do one equal to it, and it wouldnt bet out of my mind. I HAD to put it down on paper, so HaP went on the back burner and I began Camp K. I wrote out a brief character sketch for each character and have a 'Loose' outline in my head of where I want the story to go. I NEVER imagined that it would take nearly 30 chapters to get through the 1st week. but that is what happens when I let my characters tell a story. :)

WOW I ramble a lot. (as if you all didn't know)

OH and I am the Queen of shameless plugs....... I plug HaP every chance I get, but I have been known to plug other's stories. ;)

Hugs and good luck

A.A.

Thank you for starting a great discussion, BillieSue

As an editor, I see a lot of different approaches. Sometimes I have been given a very rough idea of where a story is going, sometimes just a vague idea, and often, I have no idea until I am finished with an edit. I someties get so involved in a serial, I do not want to know until I see the finished chapters
As a writer, I have worked all of the first three way mentioned.

My first story posted here, was pretty well thought out and outlined before I started writing. ( it sort of had to bem as I was allowed to make a few tiny changes and add a line or two in Maggie's TGIF, to provide hooks for some of the things happening in mine. The sequel to it was also thought out ahead of time, EXCEPT that the added parallel story that I didn't even let my proofers know about, came about when I responded to someone who commented on my story, and we decided to write her into the story. Thee is a third part I need to get back to, that also has a rough outline, and once again, it will have a surprise for my proofers.

However, I have a novel I really, really want to get back to, that I began in 1973, and pretty much quit on in 1995, but a lot of the story is based on historical event that happened in the 1975 to 1995 time frame. So there is no way I could have outlined most of it.

That said, from talking with a number of professional, I've found they usually have a fairly detailed outline before they start. In some cases, for several interconnected novels, so they can provide hooks on which to hang the next story. But sometimes even they suddenly find a story that just must be allowed to write itself, sometimes even forcing the author to write it before it allows them to return to another story they are in the middle of.

Holly

It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice.

Holly

Well Billie Sue, As For Me...

When I post my P.O.V. series, I look at Angharad's series and let the character speak through me. When I did the M.I.B.D. fan-fiction Artemis The Hunter, I sent Tina Michelle Smith an outline and she gave me permission and advice on the story. My short stories basically write themselves as I let my muse wander in my mind during the day. I hope that I have helped you in some way. I have truly enjoyed both of your series here and your new one at Fictioneer.
May Your Light Forever Shine

    Stanman
May Your Light Forever Shine

Four Things

I need four things solidified before I can get into a story; the start, the end, the protagonist, and the central point of conflict. For very short stories, such as Tower and Escape, this can be enough. For longer stories, I like to have a number of waypoints (as John called them) lurking in my mind, which I feel works fairly well as my outlining tool. How I get to each waypoint and the final end is an exploratory journey, so for example in Butterfly, I knew there needed to be a maze, but had to find out how it came into existence while writing.

If I go much deeper, mapping out entire scenes, I get in trouble. What happens is I end up with these great scenes in my mind; however, when it comes time to get to them, in words, the linking feels like drudgery. A bad thing for an author, since it is bound to make a poor story for a reader.

For my two multi-part stories, I seek to have each installment self contained. Neither Drake (Merchant) or Sascha (Shootist) have their life arcs fully defined. Though each does have a number of potential settings in which their stories may be furthered.

Depends ...

... on what you're writing. How long is it going to be? Who is it written for, the writer or the audience? That obvious bit aside, I'm assuming that you're writing a fairly long story to please an audience.

The first thing you need is a story, which means a good idea of where you're starting from, a set of more or less defined characters, a solid end, and a fairly good idea of how to get there. I don't mean that you have have to know everything, but you do have to feel the characters, understand the tension, and know where you're going. Without that, unless you're writing mainly for yourself, I see little reason to start. Use your imagination until it becomes a story that you can be excited about.

The next step is outlining. The pros do it because it's more efficient, and the longer the story, the more efficient it is. I'm no expert at it, but there are a few things that are helpful to keep in mind when making an outline -- or, for that matter, when writing classical dramatic fiction.

The Jarvis method has a neat way to concentrate the author's efforts. It directs the author to think of a key word, like "revenge" or "transformation," whatever the main thrust of the plot is. If what you're writing doesn't contribute towards that word, the concept goes, then maybe you shouldn't write what you're writing. It's not a bad thought.

Closely related is the principle that a story should have a premise, which some call a theme. A premise is tricky to define, but it's basically the argument that a story is proving with its characters, tension, and resolution. The concept that a story without a premise is less effective goes back to the days before Aristotle. A story without a premise, or one with more than one premise, means that a story is rudderless or "mushy" to the average reader. From How To Write A Damn Good Novel, a few examples of good premises:

In The Godfather, Puzo shows us a reluctant son becoming a Mafia don because he loves and respects his family. The premise: family loyalty leads to a life of crime. In the book, it sure did.

In the Old Man and the Sea, Hemingway sets out to prove the premise that courage leads to redemption. In the case of the old man, it does.

Dickens, in A Christmas Carol, shows us a miserly old man who is confronted with his misdeeds by the spirits of Christmas, and who is transformed into a kind of Santa Claus. The premise: forced examination leads to generosity.

A few bad premises because they're too general:

Strangers are not trustworthy.
War kills people.
Poverty is bad.
Life is good.

Better versions of the above:

Trust of a stranger leads to disillusionment.
War brutalizes even the most noble.
Unbridled greed (caused by being brought up in poverty) leads to alienation.
Love leads to happiness.

It's not that one should create a premise and then write a story. It works the other way around. The story is created, and then the premise is defined, understood, and incorporated to keep it on track.

You should probably use way points, as a few people have mentioned, where the characters and the plot will be here, at a given point, then there, and so forth, until the end. That's not bad. It's a good way to define the beginning and end points of chapters, too. In one story I wrote, I tried to brainstorm three different ways of getting from point A to B, then chose the one that I liked best. Before you start start writing the story, if you do that, you'll have a pretty good, well thought out outline. Change it whenever you want, but make sure that the rest of the outline is adjusted to fit.

Another helpful way of constructing an outline is through a step chart. Think of it this way: way points can be action driven, producing places in the story where things are thus and thus (way points aren't necessarily that way, but they often are). Step points are like way points, except they concentrate more on the effect the story has on the characters -- the changes or growth that they encounter as as result of the story. Character development is very important to a story, and so keeping track of where your character's head is at is important, too. Scenes should be written with character development in mind. Some scenes, obviously, have very little character development, but some have a great deal. A few loose examples of a few step points in a story I'm writing:

***

Step Chart:

Scene before the battle:

Establish that Rass and Hys are friends from birth, young warriors before a battle, as mercenaries. The mood is tense as they know they are about to fight, but they are brave. They both worry that they might not see each other, and form a bond.

Establishes the status quo, and sets up a small amount of foreshadowing.

Scene during the battle:

They ride over the hill into a column of warriors and levies, reinforcements for the main enemy force.

Fierce fighting going on. Rass and Hys are separated. After the battle, the enemy leaves the field. Rass can't find Hys anywhere among the injured or dead. Rass wants to go after him, but his commander tells him to leave it alone. He is either dead and they wanted his body armor, or they might hold him for ransom. Rass doesn't believe it. The enemy withdraws raggedly. The battle in won and the mercenaries will move on to the bridge at Mirl in a few days.

Establishes that they are both brave warriors.

Scene in the commander's tent after Rass discovers that Hys (and others) are missing:

Rass tells his commander that he must find out what happened to Hys. Commander grants him permission to scout the force and report back at Mirl. If he doesn't, he'll assume that he's dead. Won't get paid.

Rass departs, and scouts party from the woods. Determines that they are alive and in a cage – maybe five or six. Rides ahead and waits in a camping site. Kills sentry. Watches and waits. Then moves, killing guard with keys silently, then taking his keys, sliding to the cage, now covered by a tarpaulin. There is a party going on outside, with cries about using the wenches. Rass whispers, “Hys.” A woman answers. Opens cage with keys and unlocks manacles of Hys and two other women who want to leave. The other two are terrified of being whipped again, and think trying to escape is suicide. They leave, Rass and Hys on horse, and the other two women on foot in the garb of the dead warriors. The alarm is given, and Rass and Hys barely escape.

Establishes that Rass is a brave and loyal man to his friend.

Scene on the road going to the mercenary camp.

Hys is crying, furious that she is a serum girl. They ride away, but by morning, they have a discussion. Hys must find clothes. She chooses freewoman's clothes because wearing a man's clothes is ridiculous, and everyone would know. She is terribly lost and alone. Rass promises her that they will always be friends, and that he will protect her. Hys doesn't want anyone to know her name at the camp, fearing shunning. Rass agrees. This makes her feel much better.

Establishes the bond between them again, and fixes Rass' oath to protect her.

***

Another way to organize your story is to see how the masters do it. This is the checklist at the end of a chapter of the transformation plot from 20 Master Plots and how to build them:

1. The plot of transformation should deal with the process of change as the
protagonist journeys through one of the many stages of life.

2. The plot should isolate a portion of the protagonist's life that
represents the period of change, moving from one significant character state
to another.

3. The story should concentrate on the nature of change and how it affects
the protagonist from the start to the end of the experience.

4. The first dramatic phase should relate the transforming incident that
propels the antagonist (I think this is a mistake. I think the author meant
protagonist) into crisis, which starts the process of change.

5. The second dramatic phase generally should depict the effects of the
transformation. Since this plot is about character, the story will
concentrate on the protagonist's self-examination.

6. The third dramatic phase should contain a clarifying incident, which
represents the final stage of the transformation. The character understands
the true nature of his experience and how it has affected him. Generally,
this is the point in the story at which true growth and understanding occur.

7. Often the price of wisdom is a certain sadness.

***

As the author of the book explains, it doesn't mean that you have to follow any specific guidelines, or should, if your story doesn't fit. The book's purpose is to show that certain genres have certain basic established plots which have stood the test of time. They are worthy of examination. If nothing else, studying time-tested plots is an interesting way of seeing how the human mind is satisfied.

Aardvark

"Happiness is when what you think, what you say, and what you do are in harmony."

Mahatma Gandhi

"Happiness is when what you think, what you say, and what you do are in harmony."

Mahatma Gandhi

All excellent advice

erin's picture

Some of it a trifle overstated for hobby writing but this is the kind of stuff you learn from the pros. :)

BTW, not all of them outline or follow other parts of this good advice. It's still good advice. If you're Rex Stout, you can get away with writing a novel without an outline but for the rest of us it sure helps. I always have character notes and waypoints for long stories with outlines in my head if not on paper. If I outline on paper, I don't finish the story. I can however write backward from the ending. This is a technique I haven't seen mentioned.

- Erin

= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.

= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.

Outlines

BTW, not all of them outline or follow other parts of this good advice. It's still good advice. If you're Rex Stout, you can get away with writing a novel without an outline but for the rest of us it sure helps.

Know what you mean about outlines. I'm lazy, and usually don't bother with an outline for short stories under 10K words. At that point, it's likely short enough to do a brief synopsis of the main sections or just keep in your head, and ctrl-X, ctrl-V works wonders. The novels I'm writing now are, or will use the full treatment just to see if it really makes a difference. I have a feeling that it will. Regardless, I find that thinking about the various techniques clarifies matters, and that's a help by itself. :)

Aardvark

"Happiness is when what you think, what you say, and what you do are in harmony."

Mahatma Gandhi

"Happiness is when what you think, what you say, and what you do are in harmony."

Mahatma Gandhi

Hmmm

kristina l s's picture

Am I an author? I guess I've written a couple of things, so maybe. Am I a writer? Tough question. I have recently asked to have a story 'edited' (and been accepted) which is a first for me and I look forward to seeing where that goes, once I get my head back into the right area.

I have on more than one occasion written a start and then the finish...which leaves the pesky middle bit to weave it's way to completion. Other times I just go with the flow, usually shorter bits. Even then they will sometimes wander off in directions I hadn't considered. Part of the fun. Mostly I have a mental outline and then let the characters tell it within that. I tweak and fiddle as I go, constantly proofing and adjusting, but mostly small stuff like punctuation. Sometimes I'll rearrange order and flow to fit. A single word in dialogue can make a difference, at least to me.

I suppose it's all about feel and emotion. Whether it works is more down to the reader, but I have to be happy with it or what's the point. It may not be perfect and faults may be aplenty, but then if you don't screw up ya don't learn, does ya. Course I's a stubborn opinionated bitch too... ah contradictions. Enough, out you go, is probably not the best 'attitude' but there ya go. It's always similar and different and tricky and hard and fun. Sort of why we do it. Why... oh don't start. We'll be here for weeks.

Kristina

Basic information for current and future authors

If anyone wants to learn how to write, this discussion provides great ideas. Maybe Erin ought to gather these into an on-line book (without charge?) because of the basic educational information.

Love,
Billie Sue

Billie Sue

It depends on the story

Hi Billie Sue. I really like what you have done here. I like most of the other authors on this site write because they want stories they like. The only reason I started writing was that I couldn't find stories I liked after I had read the ones I did. I found that writing was fun and I just wrote. I would think of an idea and write a story about it. My first stories were pretty bad, but I learned from them. What I do now is think of a plot and fill in the blanks. With all my stories I know where they are going, so it takes me longer to type than tell a story. For example my Runway series was completely written before it went to post. I would write little stories about the characters as the story progressed. Brenda would meet someone not involed with the story plot but would help her develope as a person. That story is very specific as to the ending, because it's a mystery. Show Me The Money is completely different. I know where it's going and I just have to bring it there. To be honest I thought it would be a short story about a boy that wanted to make a little money, but after I started it I wanted it to go somewhere else and now have a series. I find stories in the weirdest places. Mialing came from a headline in the local rag about Chinese gang killings and the Window came from viewing a third floor window when I would drive out of a parking garage in San Francisco. All I would do is fill in the blanks. I found that having an editor is a must for me. My use of the language is attrocious. I'll reread my writing and change it several times before I send it to be edited and still have to change a ton of what I wrote, but that said, I'm still learning. I found too that posting on this site will bring responses from readers. Nothing is more discouraging than to write something and then not to have a comment, good or bad. That was the reason i stopped posting on FM first. It seems that readers there don't like to comment, but at BC they do. Sorry, I'm rambling and could just as easily have said to enjoy what you're doing, Arecee