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This question is the result of my evening out with the 'original' Ginny and Kate last night. They are involved with a 'Reclaim the Night' group, and had a question that I would be interested in hearing some responses to.
The thing about the group is to march, at night, to show that women have a right to use the streets without having to be afraid of attack by men, in particular. The group contains a large number of rape survivors, and as can be imagined there is a bit of an edge as soon as men get involved. The women want to do their thing entirely as a group of women, with no men present.
Some of this comes down to fear, some of itto hatred (to be honest) and a lot of it to the same idea behind a cycling Critical Mass: only cyclists go on a CM because it is about cycling.
Some groups are perceived as men, some as women, and it is the perception of the bulk of the group which is the deciding factor.
Transmen are men.
Transwomen are women.
Crossdressers are men
I spoke to 'Kate' directly about the idea of M2F transgender people, and after I had dried my eyes at her reply* I agreed to ask here what form of words could possibly be used so as not to offend the men that are not wanted for the march. I should stress that there is no wish to refuse expressions of solidarity and support from anyone, just to try and keep the march entirely female.
I will not offer my own opinion on the request.
*"But I have always related to you as a woman, Steph"
Comments
I Think Doing What Is Most Comfortable
Desensitization seems the way to go for the time being.
...since the movement is an ongoing expression via rallies and walks. I wouldn't feel excluded if a female survivor felt uncomfortable about my (outward) male presence as a fellow survivor. Excellent suggestion, Jen! And the blog reminded me of the need to be informed about the movement where I live. I can certainly get involved by reading and writing to encourage and support; my own 'participation' in the walk, as it were. Thank you both for your insight.
Dio vi benedica tutti
Con grande amore e di affetto
Andrea Lena
Love, Andrea Lena
I like that idea
maybe one walk for the woman, and a second one for all? It should be remembered some men - especially gay or gender variant, but not just those - have been threatened with rape or actually raped.
Dorothycolleen
Conflict of interests
Reclaim the Night could also be used to take the night away from the hustlers who pimp their stable of girls and free the girls from the cycle of sex and drugs
May Your Light Forever Shine
May Your Light Forever Shine
Flawed thinking?
Well, I am post op, so I absolutely insist quite firmly that I am a woman full stop. That is part of "the price is so bloody high that otherwise it is not worth it", um thing. Of course, each person can jolly well do as they wish and I fully support their desires.
As far as walking about in the night is concerned, one should avoid that if posible at all. Oh, I have been out at 2:00 AM, so I really have little room to be cheeky over it. However, I had a plan the one night, I was at a very nice dance/concert, and I had my bike to get home with. My theory was that on the bike I would be moving along at 10 mph, so that most predators would only see me and before their evil thoughts could become actionable, I would be just a memory in their filthy minds. In one place where I knew there was high risk, I was in the street with the cars, moving along at 20 mph and thankfully, that was only three blocks. My bike is one of those nearly 3 stone ones, so I simply can't do that for long.
I had pants to pull over my skirt, so my front bottom was not aired out too much. :)
I think that the women who were survivors should march with whom they are comfortable. And, the rest of us would be around them to prevent anything happening to them.
Much peace
Khadijah
Form of words
What was asked for were suggestions as to how the web site could phrase their "thanks, men, but no thanks" message without it hurting anyone.
I apologize for missing that...
...Perhaps,
"Due to the sensitive nature of the histories of our female survivors, we ask that our male survivors, friends, and supporters not attend the event at this time. Thank you for your understanding in this matter." Hope this helps.
Dio vi benedica tutti
Con grande amore e di affetto
Andrea Lena
Love, Andrea Lena
please
remove
Love, Andrea Lena
Trouble is there are
Trouble is there are alwaysgoing to be men that are going to be affronted by whatever you say. The only thing you can do is ask that they consider why. Not that it will help with some.
Ploughing one's own furrow.
On issues like this there is, I believe, in a wider agender insofar as it is as important to generate tolerance for all as it is to improve safety for all.
I don't much go on marches except when attending 'Survivors of abuse' marches. However I plough my own furrow inasmuch as I am now go boldly onto the streets dressed and behave as any RG would choosing to shop and visit restaurants how and where I choose.
That's my little contribution to the struggle for tolerance and respect.
The other night when Ireland were playing Wales at Rugby I lost track of my friends whilst running one of our number home early in the 'Tranny van'. I stopped a couple of cardiff's finest and asked how I could get to 'The Old Library'. This is a 'straight bar' in the Hayes which is in the middle of Cardiff Clubland. They explained that the anti traffic measures were in place, (Steel posts that emerge from the ground and controlled by time locks. There was no way I could get my van close to The Old Library. Consequently I had to park in my usual place and walk the gauntlet of all the bars and clubs full of rugby supporters to reach my friends at The Old Library. Nary a peep nor a comment did I have to endure and that speaks volumes for the improvments at least in Cardiff, Wales' captital city.)
Two weeks ago Mandy and I walked the same 'gauntlet' during a Cardiff city football match and once again we suffered no harrassment. A couple of wolf whistles and a suggestive comment but nothing unduly threatening.
Truly, things have come a long way, at least in Cardiff.
I know it's risky but it's the only way we can reclaim the streets for not only women but other vulnerable groups.
If some women don't want our support then that's their loss. Though truthfully I find most women are glad we're out there and even choose to accompany us between clubs just to garnish some sympathetic protection.
We all have our little bit parts to play in the struggle.
Me 'out' in Cardiff taking a pavement coffee with Mandy. Photo by Mandy
Mandy also openly drinking coffee at the pavement table in the middle of Cardiff.
That's Cardiff castle in the background. This is our own private 'take back the streets' campaign.
(Mind you, the shopping's fun as well!)
Beverly.
Growing old disgracefully.
Purely a messenger here
I take everything you say, Bev. The request I had was along the lines of Drea's suggestion; "Thank you, but some of our people are nervous of chaps even when wearing frocks or having started out as ladies, so please leave them to their walk"
It is a request for as tactful a phrasing as possible.
And...
I missed your remark about 'protection'. The point of the event is that there should never be a need for protection. We all know the reality of this shitty world, but one can hope.
Off the top of my head
Many of the women here have had their trust and in varying degrees their bodies abused and violated. We know the vast majority of men are with us and against such attacks. There is often a large emotional impact and a resulting negative sensitisation to a close male presence that unfortunately results.
We therefore respectfully request that although many if not most of you gentlemen out there are with us in spirit that you allow us this as a women only march. Your help and support is welcomed in other ways and in other avenues.
Thank you for understanding.
*** Shrug, it's a pinch formal maybe but in the ball park.
Kristina
It makes the concern known while still acknowledging
those men who would want to march; that they are important, and aren't being excluded, but included in a more practical way for the sake of the survivor women. Good call!
Dio vi benedica tutti
Con grande amore e di affetto
Andrea Lena
Love, Andrea Lena