Thinking out loud

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I've been considering something for some time and still haven't made up my mind on it for reasons which will become apparent.

I've long wanted to study an ecology degree and they do an Environmental Science degree at the Open University, which means it's distance learning. It is obviously part time and will take six years or more to complete studying at 60 credits per year. It also costs about £3000 per year minimally as there are things like summer schools, which are residential. It requires between 15-20 hours per week study time. Being a bit dim and knocking on a bit, it will probably take more.

Now, the questions are: do I have the stamina, remember I'm still working 3 days per week in private practice, which will be useful in helping to fund it? Can I really afford something which while it will give me a potentially professional qualification, will I ever use, as I'll be heading towards 70 by then? So is it just a vanity project or should I think of it as a long term personal development goal? What effect will it have on my other activities--like writing or cycling? I'm secretary of the cycling club. Finally, am I completely crazy for even thinking about it?

Comments or thoughts (keep 'em clean) are appreciated. Anyone else started as a geriatric student?

&&&&&

On another matter, for the full text of I Want What I Want by Geoff Brown click on the link below:

http://www.antijen.org/iwant/WantMain.html

Comments

Dream a Little Dream

Your post reminded me of an old Mama Cas Elliot song. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4T3tMkjRig Do what you wish to be happy I'd say. The one thing that insures we will get older is to give in to it. Cycling will benefit your body and soul. The school exercises your mind. Bike is a creative outlet that we all enjoy. Perhaps notching back to 6 instead of 8 on a couple things? Bike would still be lovely at 2 or 3 episodes a week. You can be sure to lose physical fitness if you don't bike. I support what ever you do.

I've been taking a bit of Psychology and that has been fun, though I now know I am not patient enough to be a shrink. I'm struggling to get more fit again. There are some 8,000 foot ridges that I wish to hike. Hopefully the effects of the C.Diff will ease because I am told that if I do not take care of myself, it will only get worse. If you wish to study Ecology, who is to stop you?

Go forth and have fun.

Gwen

Potential Regret

Lifelong learning is a lofty goal. Such a study will keep your mind stimulated and give you a goal; although, I don't think you have any issues with keeping your mind stimulated now, and you seem to live a pretty full life. £18,000 is a lot of money. If you can afford to spend it without expecting a financial return, and it's something you really want to do, then you should probably go for it. It's possible that you'll discover that it's not as important to you as you thought at some point, but then you'll only be out the money you've committed so far. On the other hand, you may find that you really enjoy it. How much would you regret not giving it a go?

Learning never stops.

I love taking classes and learn new things. So, I don't find your desire strange or very difficult. The real question is do you need the "proof" of knowledge? As I approach 60 years, my desire to finish yet another masters degree has wained. I now use more informal learning.

Why not?

My guess is that you'll never take an entry level job in Environmental Science but, who cares? One of the things about retirement is keeping active enough physically and mentally that you don't just turn to dust and blow away (I've been retired for four years now). It does get harder to learn new things as you age. I've been learning XML lately. At times it has been a struggle where 10 years ago it would have been like falling off a log

Of course it will affect your other activities. Probably not enough to preclude them though. If the monetary cost isn't a problem and the time seems like spending your time playing go for it! If you get into it and find out it's not what you thought or you don't like the actual tradeoffs stop doing it. Good luck.

You know more than you think you know

Rhona McCloud's picture

I've done some OU courses at degree and masters level in subjects far from my original education and suspect that you might find your breadth of knowledge and experience put you ahead of the course in some areas while those parts designed for those entering the workforce (e.g. the statistical tools that Sammi polished for Cathy) aren't as interesting as you thought.
With that in mind I hope you do at least the entry level credits and play it from there

Rhona McCloud

What is the attraction?

The most important point is "what is the attraction". Is it knowledge, formal qualification, challenging yourself with the rigour of formal education and the assessment process? Which ones of these matter to you?

As far as the cost is concerned, if you can afford it then then for the 60 quid per week you can have a couple of private language, bridge or line dancing lessons per week or study ecology. It is your choice which of these entertainments you prefer.

As for other commitments, you can scale them up and down as needed. You write for fun so don't stress.

Understand what it means to you and then live your life as you choose!

Good luck.

If you will get 3000 pds

If you will get 3000 pds worth of pleasure from it, why not do it ? Just don't let that pleasure detract from your other pleasureable activities.
You may find you could teach segments of the course yourself.
Karen

What else are you going to spend your billions on?

Go for it, Angie! If you can handle Bike almost every day for almost a decade, then some college classes should be easy peasy for you. And, at the very least, even if it gets too much for you to handle, it's self-driven work, so if you ever feel that it isn't going to work out you can just quit, right? Yeah, you'd be out a bit of cash, but you'd still have gotten all the learning you could in before then, and if learning is the main goal -- not just the degree -- then isn't that worth it on its own?

Plus then, once I get back into classes, we can commiserate over trying to handle part-time schooling and work and writing together :D

Melanie E.

Go For It!!!

joannebarbarella's picture

You have to keep those odd brain cells (not saying you're odd!) rubbing together. I'm a couple of weeks away from being 74 and I'm off to Hong Kong to see if anybody is crazy enough to want to give me some part-time employment. It's not the money...although money never goes astray....but being involved in something stimulating and interesting.

As long as you can afford it I say do it. There's no point being the richest corpse in the graveyard.

go for it!

Do you have to do so many classes at one time? Is there a way you can take less at the expense of another year?

You should never give up on education. If you feel strongly about earning a degree in Environmental Sciences then please go for it- it'll be worth it to you.Damn the expenses, if you can afford it then please go for it and enjoy yourself. You may enjoy the experience more than anything else.

I'm told STFU more times in a day than most people get told in a lifetime

You don't have to do it for the ££££ $$$$

I have an MBA (at nightschool). Did it out of interest and 'because I could' aged 50+. I was by far the oldest on the course. Several times I was asked to take the class 'because of my business experience'. Much of my work experience has been fighing the idiocy of PHB's (Pointy headed Boss from Dilbert.com).

Do I use it in my work? Nope... well not unless I meet someone spouting MBA 101 at me. Fight fire with fire and all that. I deliberatley do not include it on my CV/Resume. I don't want to be a manager, ever. It wasn't for the money even though I could have probably doubled my income by becoming a Manager.

As I conteplate retiring this year (aged 63), I may well sign up for an OU Course. Not sure which but it will probably be in the Sciences unless I can do Industrial Archaeology. Gotta keep the old noggin active you know.

I say go for it. You are aware of the commitment so I don't need to mention that.

My Mum!

Christina H's picture

She started an OU degree in Environmental Engineering 63 years young, she was working part time 3 or 4 days a week and was always busy with the WI and charity work so she was worried how long it would take her.

In short Angharad she had the same concerns as you with the exception of the vanity project - she freely admitted that this is what it was something to show herself that she could 'still do it'. In the end it took her 6 years but she did it.

In all honesty she allocated 1 to 2 hours a day, a lot of the reading she could do with her morning cuppa making notes the old fashioned way (note book and pen) until me and my sister dragged her kicking and screaming into the modern world with a Tablet.
It didn't impact on her life a real lot she simply juggled things around a little bit.

Summer School she loved as it brought her into contact with others of a like mind and in her words 'made me feel useful' as with her age she became the unofficial mentor to the study group. She used the dog walking time to arrange her thoughts and I assume you could use your cycling in a similar manner.

Oh and she has never really used the qualification except in discussions/arguments about environmental issues BUT now she is 72 and still working (through choice) and has never regretted her time with the OU.

So I would say go for it and embrace the experience.

Christina

Study it!

I think you've already decided that. Whether you do the formal degree is the question.

Bike shows us that you have enough discipline to arrange your own self study if you want. I suspect your problem if you go that route, will be knowing when to stop.

The OU

I did a degree over six years, while working full-time and on shifts. It brought a new sense of purpose to my life. Go for it. As has been said, what else would you spend your money on?

Go For It! Don't let practicality stop you from pursuing dreams

If nothing else consider it a mid-priced hobby.

I've often thought about a degree in archaeology or something like that when I retire. I think I'm about the same age as you so unlikely that I'd end up using it for anything but it's been a lifelong interest. While I enjoy my work (have an MS in Computer Sciences) I think I'd like to study something completely different at some point. (That and woodworking, woodturning and cabinet making)

You need to ask yourself a few questions and be honest with you.

I will not say one way or the other. That is up to you to decide. You said, money is not the problem, but time might be one.
This kind of study takes commitment. You are doing many things, which I hope are adding to a fulfilling life. Yet enviromental sciences, ecology have always been a serious interest of you. Why else would you go birdwatching or looking for dormice?
Ask yourself, what you want to do with that degree. You could get more into teaching other people and children the importance of protecting our nature, not just by showing a good example, but also by giving them real in-depth education. You also could do research projects, but that would be a rather frustrating part as most of what you will do is trying to secure money for your research projects.
Do what your heart tells you, Angharad. Either way you will be helping people and help them to make the world a better place.

You are definitely not crazy. Without us older people, I fear the youth will lack the guidance and will to develop our society into a better one.

--
>> There is not one single truth out there. <<

An 'O-U.' degree.

Hi Ang.
My wife Helen qualified as a teacher way back in 1970 but she always hankered after a degree. She was an extremely bright lady and because she had been mis-directed whilst in the sixth form she ended up doing 'Biology main' (A girl's subject !!!!!!!!!) at Cyn-Coed teacher training College, Ca-ardiff . Talk about sexism and stereotyping!

In her late forties/early fifties, she finally fulfilled her ambition and completed a Math's degree after three years study. This while teaching full time, with two growing (High School) children and no husband on scene cos' he was often away at sea. She only took three years because she was an extremely bright lady but she attended two summer schools in Milton Keynes. I think she did six units but I would stand corrected on that as I was not there much during those hectic years. However, she finally got her B.A., (Not a B.Sc., note.) and fulfilled her dream.
I end by telling you it gave her an immense sense of achievement and fulfilment for the rest of her life and we both felt it was the zenith of her life-achievement. It's a lot of work but it does give one a tremendous fillip to put those letters after one's name. Furthermore, she never used her degree professionally either, though she did a lot of maths tutoring for A level students after our children left home for college.

GO FOR IT GIRL!!! It's a lot of work but very rewarding.
Bev.

P.S.

Her success also motivated me to do an O.U., M.Sc., in 'Microscopic and Macroscopic factors affecting Oil cargo Clingage in Ship's cargo tanks This I completed at aged 55 when I finally concluded my seafaring career. That was useful in my last career as a harbour-master in South Wales.

bev_1.jpg

Never too old to learn something new

I say: Go for it! As so many others have said, it is allways good to excercise those brain cells. I an uncle, who at 70 is still taking one or two classes each semester at his local university. At 60 he wanted to go for his PhD. But the university told him that they did not have enough doctoral advisors, and they wanted to prioritize on the younger candidates. And now as a senior citizen, the tuition is free, so he just continues to take more classes.

Jessica

P.S. Thank you for the link to Geoff Brown's novell "I Want What I Want".

One more thing

More education can never be a 'vanity project' but it is a good way to stay younger.
Louise

In one of my graduate level

In one of my graduate level classes at University, there was a gentleman that was in his 60's, at least, and he kept up with the class quite well.

Might I offer another suggestion? Find out what the tariff would be to audit the classes, rather than take them for credit. Often it's a tremendous amount less. If what you want is the information and the experience, that could significantly reduce your stress. That gives you three options. 1) Degree, 2) knowledge/experience, and 3) not spend the money. (Just don't go Scots on it. Queen Elizabeth doesn't look good screaming)


I'll get a life when it's proven and substantiated to be better than what I'm currently experiencing.

We Stop Learning When We Decide to Die !

There are now several universities that do "Distance Learning" for Degrees in a whole range of subjects. One can also learn by reading, by experimenting, and by just doing new things. I was once in a close relationship with someone who worked at the Open University in the then New City of Milton Keynes, and got to finding out a lot more than they made public about how they managed things and how they taught. My impression is that they remain the best at it. My local University, the University of the Highlands and Islands, is the newest proper University that provides such opportunities. My younger Daughter did a Fine Arts BA (Special), that was supposed to be a three year course but because they were still setting themselves up, it took six years because they did not yet have the staff available to teach each new year ! I understand they are now far better organised, It is definitely the harder way to do a degree.

When my then Employers sent me to work in their West German Subsidiary, I was sent on a Goerthe Institute course of Intensive Learning to acquire at least some basic German. It lasted a Fortnight and they paid my bill. Most of my fellow students on that course were young Japanese ladies, but they were accompanied by an eighty-year old Japanese man, whom they treated with great reverence and respect, and who did very well on the Course, passing with a better score than I had.

I am now 78, and after the Biotech Bubble burst, I moved to a small Hebridean island to be nearer my younger daughter, at her suggestion, and my work now is with a local Charity, where I have to pay them to let me work for them ! I am learning the local language, which is Scots Gaelic, that older people still speak in the local shop and when they meet.

I found moving from one country to another and needing to learn the local lingo helped keep me young. I first studied Zoology which included Oecology, for my B Sc, but later had to do one in Immunology, This is a subject that is intensively researched, so that I have twice now had to go back to a college to revise and update my knowledge of it, and I was granted a PhD in it whilst working in Hungary back in the late 1980s. I sometimes have to help students with their Theses. to get all the grammar and spelling right and make it clearer what they are trying to say, but I try to keep up with advances in the Biological, Chemical and Physical sciences, by reading the Journals etc.. With the late consequences of being bombed and trapped in the ruins of our house in London during the Blitz, and my lack of a proper balance sense due to either a series of childhood infections or the side effects of various pre-antibiotic prescriptions, I was never going to be any good at sports, and whilst I really love to go for walks, these days I have to concentrate on how to fall safely more than trying to stay upright, but, weather permitting, I still go for a stroll along a beach or over some dunes, or even through the rather rare in these parts, wood, with my stick to help me.

Over these last 2 decades, I have lost too many dear Friends and Relatives, including my Mother, who went a few days before her 90th Birthday. I have noticed that people reach a stage where they turn inward and lose interest in the world outside of themselves, and it is then that they start to die. There are things we can take these days to keep active and alive longer. A serious shock can also re-set one's Biological Clock. I had that happen to me, many years ago, as a result of an accident with a radioactive isotope I was pipetting using a mouth pipette (back then there was no " 'Elf 'n' Safety" rules in research labs!). I am biologically 25 years younger than my chronological age.

Briar

No monopoly

The OU no longer has a virtual monopoly on distance learning, and I reckon the current cost of courses are enough to frighten anyone. Have you searched for alternative courses? There may be a lot of stuff out there - much of it free.

Of course, if a day wearing cap and gown, and a formal qualification are important, then a degree is the obvious choice.

I do feel that when you first retire, you do need some formal project to aim for, although my inclination would be to go for something with a shorter timescale. I find with increasing years (now 67), every illness hits me harder and incapacitates me for longer, so I do think you should factor that in. My inclination would be to go for a shorter length course. I know I certainly wouldn't last your intended course, but you know yourself.

Good luck with your decision, and best wishes, whatever your choice.